Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc48.txt

Text File | 1994-05-07 | 427.0 KB | 11,511 lines

This is the Imagine Mailing List ([e-mail]) Archive #48
covering messages from Mar. 03. 1994 to Mar. 31. 1994.
If you have any questions or problems with this file, E-mail Nik Vukovljak
at [e-mail]

Thanks goes to Neil Miller for his efforts in creating the new header stripper
for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #1  ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 10:22:34 +1100
From: [e-mail]

> Also when I want to make text with the postscript fonts, Imagine says
> that there isn't a vector available. What could cause this ?

I have found that many of the postscript fonts found in aminet/text/font/
return this error... basically it's trail and error until you find fonts that
load correctly. I've found that about half of them load correctly.

Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #2  ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 10:36:49 +1100
From: [e-mail]

Thanks for the replys on Lights,

 Someone asked why I used a fog of 0.01, this is because if you build an
object that you wish to use as a lamp, because the lamp is assigned to the
axis and not to the faces the faces act as a barrier when cast-shadows & bright
are on ie the light cant escape. Setting a fog to 0.01 makes it think its
transparent and the light works. I think this is whats happening anyway, I just
discovered it by luck.

I've managed to get round the problem by keeping the original tube and
adding 4 other lamps in the stage editor (all shadow castin) and it works
great, rendering isnt to bad and I've got nice speculars on the underneath
of the cupboard and the tiled wall instead of perfectly round.




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #3  ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 11:26:41 +1100
From: [e-mail]

> On Fri, 25 Feb 1994, Michael Whitten wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, Worley's book has no tutorial for setting up animation, so
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> If someone could please elaborate, I'd appreciate it.  What I'm mean is,
> what exactly does "Understanding Imagine" contain concerning animation?
> The main reason I want the book is so that I can learn how to do
> animation.  Any info. appreciated.

When Imagine came out, the manual was less than perfect, so Worley wrote a
book about how to use Imagine, which, I'm told, is very good - what the
manual should have been.  It seems (I dont actually have a copy myself -
yet) that it doesnt say much about animations.

And while I'm at it,  Impulse have learnt from their past mistakes, and are
taking the time to produce a proper manual rather than release a half
finished product (pat on the back Impulse), but have sent an intermediate
version (v2.9) to whet our appetites.

Tak

+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Tak Tang, Internet : [e-mail]    |   // Amiga 1500, KS 1.3,    |
| Computer Science                              | \X/ 3 Megs ram, 2 Floppies, |
| Faculty of Applied Science                    | GVP Series II SCSI Card,    |
| Department of Electronics & Computer Science  | Quantum 11ms 52Megs HD,     |
| Southampton University, England               | Vortex 386sx GoldenGate     |
+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #4  ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 11:37:52 +1100
From: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Feb 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> One more question - is there a PD flc player for the amiga up there?
>
There is a really good player up there if you have a machine running KS
3.0. The archive is called Flip_146.lha

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #5  ***************************************:-)

Subject: Impulse digitizer
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 08:47:04 EST
From: [e-mail]

Has anyone heard something about a 3-d digitzer that Impulse will have
available soon?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #6  ***************************************:-)

Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 08:45:06 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

Im a bit new to this so hope all goes well!!

I have been an Imagine user for a couple of years and at Uni did a briefing
on ray-tracing.  I attempted to do the standard RGB cube but when tracing it
(in version 2, dunno about 1!) I kept getting black lines cutting accross the
corners.  The scene was a white cube, with 3 lights (R,G,B). the output was
something like:-

      *
        **R**
     **-------**
  **             **
*M                 Y*
* **             ** *
*    **       **    *
*       **W**       *
*\        *        /*
*B\       *       /G*
  **      *      **
     **   C   **
        ** **
          *

The lines show where the glitches are.  (sorry about the graphics, more ST than
AGA!).

So, basically.....HELP!!!

R. Collier


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #7  ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine FOG options
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 15:43:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Kees Pronk <[e-mail]>

Wow...

My first question send to the * famous * Img. mailing list...

Down to earth again --->


Imagineers,

Can anybody maybe explain to me how to use the FOG options in Imagine
2.0 / 2.9 ?
These are one of the few options I'm still quit a bit in the dark about!

Thanks! , Kees Pronk. ([e-mail])



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #8  ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Jello
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 08:58:02 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Gary Beeton, [e-mail])

> Check out "RayTracing Jell-O Brand Gelatin" in the ACM SIGGraph proceedings
> in or about 1987(?). It's a paper from a Pixar dude on ray-tracing
> gelatin. It's a riot and mentions our favorite computer ;^)

Does anyone know if this can be found on Internet?

Gary


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #9  ***************************************:-)

Subject: Flying logo projects
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 1994 10:15:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>

Hi everyone.. I'd be interested in seeing some folks' FLYING LOGO projects.

I'm starting to get some business with flying logos (well, a few jobs so
far), and would like to see some tips of motion, pathing, lighting, and etc.

If anyone is able to help out, please email me your projects and objects.

Thanks!



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #10 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: The cupboard Flourescents
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:41:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Regarding the "realistic", or at least effective rendering of light
  emitted from a long flourescent tube...
    It seems that the thought of a mirror system or using many light
    sources would work, but perhaps at an unecessary cost of rendering
   times.  I guess it depends on the look you want in opposition to your
   rendering capacities, hm?
    Even with an '040 28, I'm kind of an impatient critter and tend to
   want things out faster (for animation, of course) rather than
   photographic.  Scanline tricks may not be able to touch ray-traced
   reminders of reality, but I find myself in unplanned territory when a
   completely different effect manifests itself.
     egarding the flourescent tube, though, I'd definitely try the
   conic light source with the oval shaped 'base'.  Yes, they emanate from
   a single point, but the effect on a surface below could be quite
   satisfying with 'diminish intensity' and a slightly higher than ambience
   colour setting.The only problem I could foresee is that nasty tendency
   for light sources to ONLY illuminate those things tenaciously residing
   within their strict boundaries.  Too bad Imagine doesn't support
   something like 'Raydiosity' in Mac's StrataVision. (slow, but fun
   package!Experienced strata users send private email to this newbie, eh?)
    wes~
    [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #11 ***************************************:-)

Subject: None
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 00:13:47
From: [e-mail]

 > I was wondering if there exists a object converter which converts
 > from POV or VIVID object format to some amiga format (imagine,
 > lightwave or sculpt)?

There are several PD/Shareware files that can be used to accomplish this.
POV2RAW to convert POV objects to RAW triangle data.  Then use RAW2DXF to
convert to Autocad's DXF format.  From there you should be able to read the
file into Imagine, Lightwave, etc.

Syndesis Corp., producers of Interchange Plus for the Amiga, and soon for many
other platforms, is working on a POV import module.  Although they may be
working on an export module as well.

GreG





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #12 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Animation Question(s)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 08:59:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  You are talking about probably the two biggest roadblocks everybody hits
when trying to do animations with Imagine.
  Yes, the best thing to do is to get everything set up as much as possible
in the first frame of the Stage Editor: initial positions, sizes, and
alignments.  This is where a crucial step need to be taken but is not really
brought to attention in the manual or Understanding Imagine.
  The requestor command "Save Changes" does NOT save the postion, size, and
alignment changes in the Stage Editor.  For every object, you must pick
select that  object you have moved, resized, and realigned, and go into the
Load/Save requestor and find the Save Position bar, Save Size bar, and the
Save Alignment bar.  This is the only way these new settings get saved into
the Action Editor bars which controls your animation.  This is the only way
these settings also get copied to the rest of the frames in the Stage
Editor.  Once you get familiarized, you will find yourself going back and
forth from the Action Editor to the Stage Editor to get your animations
set-up the way you want.
  As for keys, this concept is really only present in the Cycle Editor.  The
term "Key frame" as you are using it, is done in the Stage Editor using the
above method.  That is, reposition, resize, and realign your objects in some
later frame and save them the same way.
   And I have to disagree, I think Understanding Imagine does cover setting
up animations pretty thoroughly, it is just that it tends to cover the
Action Editor in an explanatory fashion, and it is not immediately obvious
that this is being done to explain how animations are set up.  Hope this
helps some and good luck!
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: IML
Subject: Animation Question(s)
Date: Friday, February 25, 1994 11:16AM

I'm still new to Imagine2.0, so I hope I'm not boring anyone.  I've
successfully managed to create animations, but being the inquisitive
type, I'm unable to understand exactly *WHEN*, in the setting up of a
scene in Frame 1, said scene is 'copied over' (for lack of a better term)
to the remaining frames for subsequent key editing.

After preparing a project/sub-project and establishing # of frames in the
Action Editor, I go to the Stage Editor and load objects. Moving, scaling,
and rotating are possible here.  At this point, I can Goto any subsequent
frame and see that the scene I established in Frame 1 is 'copied' into these
subsequent frames.  Can I further edit/load objects into Frame 1 and see
these changes reflected in those subsequent frames?  If yes, are these
reflected changes automatic?  For example, if I want a loaded object to
actually be smaller in size throughout my animation and I scale it
appropriately in Frame 1, the same object in subsequent frames will not
scale.  Is it correct that to properly scale that object for use in the
animation, I should have scaled it down in the Detail Editor first, THEN,
brought it into the Stage Editor?

With the concept of keys and key editing in mind, it seems I SHOULD be
able to, 1) edit Frame 1 to my heart's content, NOT keying anything in that
Frame, 2) when I'm finished with this setting up in Frame 1, explicitly tell
Imagine to 'copy over' the scene into subsequent frames, and, 3) THEN start
keying objects throughout the animations frames.  I know there's big
differences between the 'shoulds' and 'ares', and that the real method
Imagine uses is probably more flexible, but I'm having a hard time getting
a mental grip on it.

Unfortunately, Worley's book has no tutorial for setting up animation, so
its hard to understand SEQUENCE of operations and how important it is in
the setting-up of animations.  I'm sure this is all pretty second nature to
most of you, but if someone can supply some insight on just this ONE hurdle,
I'd be most thankful.......well, the one hurdle for THIS week, at least.

Michael

PS: Has anyone ray-traced an animation of the quantum double-slit experiment

yet?  If yes........whaaat happened?


 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 +    M.D. Whitten   [e-mail]    Sentience is overrated.   +
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #13 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Traffic jam on the info super-hi-way
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 15:31:52 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]

Greetings -

I haven't forgot about you all yet - I've been a bit busy.

About the bones anim - I'll upload something as soon as I can get
a file from my computer into my unix account - I suspect the term
program I'm using.  What a pain.....


later...                             sk...


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #14 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine Video Tutorials
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 14:46:59 PST
From: "Steve McLaughlin" <[e-mail]>

Can anyone recommend or not any of the Imagine Video Tutorials
available?  and/or does anyone have one for sale?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #15 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:27:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

<     Will this be fixed in 3.0?  I would like to import 2D and 3D
<     lines, arcs, circles, etc.  This capability would greatly enhance
<     the power and flexibility of Imagine.
<

Imagine doesn't work with any but triangles, this means that circles
and other forms (besides spheres) will be converted to triangles.
They'll be able to do it but don't expect a miracle.

Kiernan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #16 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:36:42 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

<Is 2MB too big for most people?  What size will people happily download?
<
<
<All input greatfully received :-)

You'll get flames (not from me) if you post it here, but if you have
ftp you can just upload it to a site of preference (aminet most likely)
and anyone who has access to ftp (I think there is a way to use
ftp via Email using special Email services made for the purpose).
Likewise, if you have no ftp access you can probably ue one of thesse
Email services that let you use ftp sites (I don't know too much about it,
but I assume they exist).

Chances are you do have FTP.

Everyone here prefers text/messages and not junk (uuencoded binaries, etc.)
because some pay for mail on a letter by letter basis or a mbox size basis,
or both, or directory size, time, etc. I'm a student with a almost infinite
fee free account, so I don't care but the above is what others have said to
me (and I did get p*ssed off, but now I know better, I just send Email
most Imagine users hate to read).




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #17 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: overlapping transparency & render times
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 02:40:00 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Dan Santos)

In a message of 28 Feb 94 Steve Koren wrote to me:

 SK> From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]> To:

 SK> I have a moderately complex object to which I have applied
 SK> transparency. With transparency turned off, the object renders in about
 SK> 8 minutes in 900x630 in trace mode with antialiasing set to 32 (which I
 SK> think is pretty darn fast).  With transparency turned *on*, it takes
 SK> over 9 *hours* to render in the same resolution.  I can get it a little
 SK> faster by setting antialiasing back, but not too much.

 (...)

 SK> Anyway, this transparency thing is killing my render times.  Any tricks
 SK> or hints for speeding things up?

Why not do this in scanline? Transparent objects look fairly good in scanline
mode...But if you can't give up the refraction effect, try limiting the value
on index of refraction and resolve depth. Also try killing all reflection;
sometimes transparent objects can look good without it..

 SK> PS - anyone heard any news about that Transputer card?  There were
 SK> rumors a while back that both Imagine and R3D might be ported to it.  I
 SK> could sure use a 10-fold (or whatever) increase in rendering speed, and
 SK> I can't afford a Screamer.  I suppose we'd need Essence ported to it
 SK> also, come to think of it.

RealSoft said they would support it. But I heard that US Cybernetics has been
promising this card for over two years now.. So this could just be another
Vivid24-story.. I sure hope not, tho..

Internet  [e-mail]
FidoNet   2:200/103.5
AmiNet    39:162.113.7


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #18 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Cutoff cube question
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 17:16:27 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)

Someone asked why Imagine was cutting the edges off of his cube...

The answer:  Phong shading is cutting off the edges of your cube.
             Turn it off in the attributes requester.
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]            |
| 24MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Yes there is a Dayton, Nevada.  I live there! |
\____________________________________________________________/


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #19 ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 22:54:11 +1100
From: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Feb 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> One more question - is there a PD flc player for the amiga up there?
>
There is a really good player up there if you have a machine running KS
3.0. The archive is called Flip_146.lha

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #20 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 23:19:06 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

as MR. R.L.COLLIER said,
<
<Im a bit new to this so hope all goes well!!
<
<I have been an Imagine user for a couple of years and at Uni did a briefing
<on ray-tracing.  I attempted to do the standard RGB cube but when tracing it
<(in version 2, dunno about 1!) I kept getting black lines cutting accross the
<corners.  The scene was a white cube, with 3 lights (R,G,B). the output was
<something like:-
<
<      *
<        **R**
<     **-------**
<  **             **
<*M                 Y*
<* **             ** *
<*    **       **    *
<*       **W**       *
<*\        *        /*
<*B\       *       /G*
<  **      *      **
<     **   C   **
<        ** **
<          *

I wonder if this is the same as the bug in the phong-shading that
someone showed me seveal years ago in the first Imagine..
It is probably either that, or just the fact that you are using phong shading
or your lights are spot-lights and you aren't covering the whole
cube..

I think the phong-shading problem can be found if you ray-trace
an object (we used a mushroom found in the turbo-silver directories
on ab20 a long time ago) that has surfaces that fold inwards, place a
light just directly in back of the observer (or on) and have the oberver
look straight on at the object.. There should be some strange black
areas where the phong shading screwed up.. The person that showed me
said it had something to do with the way the phong-shading is calculated,
like surfaces in-caving are handled as rounded outwards rather than
inwards..

Kiernan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #21 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Post Script from aminet
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:41:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tak Tang <[e-mail]>

>
> I have found that many of the postscript fonts found in aminet/text/font/
> return this error... basically it's trail and error until you find fonts that

> load correctly. I've found that about half of them load correctly.

Would it be possible to fix it by loading it into type smith by Soft Logic
or something similar?

+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Tak Tang, Internet : [e-mail]    |   // Amiga 1500             |
| Southampton University, England               | \X/                         |
+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #22 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Forwarded mail...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:47:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tak Tang <[e-mail]>

> Bandwidth apologies etc,
[snip]

> Is 2MB too big for most people?  What size will people happily download?
>
> Jay

Could you chop it up into convenient bite sized pieces (<720K) please? A few of
us are still in the stone age :-)

Ta,

Tak

+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Tak Tang, Internet : [e-mail]    |   // Amiga 1500             |
| Southampton University, England               | \X/                         |
+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #23 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Faster!!!!
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 11:35:13 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

Dont suppose anyone can supply me with the file format for Imagine objects
could they?  I am interested in writing a coverter for converting between
Imagine (Obviously!!) and CGAL (Ray-tracer for Apollo's).  Any info would
be very helpful indeed!!

I got a bit worked out but then got horribly lost in the hex editor!

Cheerz

Rich  (Renegade)

PS Anyone know where I can get A 4000-30 at a fair price (UK PLEASE!!).

***************************************
"Man is but the dream of the dolphin.."
***************************************
A1200 - Broken since NOV 93! (cos WANG have not got their act together!!)
127MB HD
2 MG


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #24 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: bevelling with imagine 2.9
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 94 11:42:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

   There was a post awhile back from Impulse acknowledging that the spline
editor in V2.9 has a bug and won't load most Postscript fonts.  It is
supposed to be fixed in V3.0.  I guess there are some PS fonts on aminet
that work, though.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: bevelling with imagine 2.9
Date: Tuesday, March 01, 1994 4:23PM

Hi,

I just got imagine 2.9 and wanted to try imported text (postscript)
converted
to a beveled object.

I believe this could be done in the spline editor. (there I found a
requester
with beveling parameters).

Now, the problem is how to do it.

Also when I want to make text with the postscript fonts, Imagine says
that there isn't a vector available. What could cause this ?

Last question : is there any help file available or some faq of Imagine
2.9 ? The only textfile that I have is a description of the new textures.

Hope somebody answers..

E.R.

[e-mail]
Antwerp - Belgium.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #25 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: The cupboard Flourescents
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 15:12:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  I think what I failed to mention is that the object's axis would be at
  the TIP of this cone with it's business-end axis (y or z, fergit which!)
  perpendicular to the base of the cone.  Additionally, as another pointed
  out, this selfsame axis would be located outside of the tube object (set
  to BRIGHT in attributes).  In other words, QED.
    Hope you're doing well down there in Marrietta, Tyrone! Sorry to fall
    out of touch so slovenly, perhaps the IML will help, eh?
 wes~
   Oh, yes, the most important bit, it seems a moot point, but setting the
   light type to 'conical' will conform said conical light source to the
   shape of the cone (actually, the cone's axes, which likely will be the
   same)



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #26 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Just some more goo...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:01:50 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]

Greetings,


All:

thanx for all the answers to the aminet/flc questions - your info has
been a big help.


Nick:
>     1) Is the LOAD flag bug in config going to be fixed in3.0?

Sorry, but that's not a bug - actually, the bug was in leaving the flag
in the config file.  In V3.0 that option will be removed.  To be able to
run Imagine, you'll just have to get more memory.

> ... [the config file says] something about 'oct-tree level'.  What EXACTLY is
>this about????

The oct-tree stuff is an optimizing gig that Imagine does while ray tracing.
It sub divides the world up into cubic areas - the oct-tree level tells the
renderer how much to keep sub dividing things (this is what's going on when
Imagine says, "Initializing").  A high oct-tree level works great for most
objects, but for very simple objects (like, just a single, simple primative)
the renderer over does the sub-dividing.  A lower level number would be more
effecient for the simpler objects.

The oct-tree area is directly connected to the global world size.  Setting
the global world size to 0,0,0 makes Imagine take it's best guess at a world
size for the oct-tree.

Blitzkrieg:
>OK, I'm not moaning about time or anything as unconstructive as that,
thanx...
>but is there a posible release dateof Imagine 3.0 ?
>I understand that Impulse are (rightly) reluctant to set a firm date, bt
>can they give a 'possible' date??

As soon as I hear something I'll let you know.  Someone was asking for a
percent done quote - I'd say it's 99.9999% done.  There is only a couple
of new things that HAVE to be put in, a lot of bugs to kill, and then a
final pass on the manual.

RE: lights:
>... [the continuing story of how everyone would do a flourescent tube]...

My suggestions are:
- pack a bunch of lights together in the tube to even the light out near the
tube.
- use very dim diminishing (both shadow and non shadow) lights as fill
lights to soften up and erase unwanted shadows in the areas where the
flourescent tube should be casting light.
- for the tube itself, use multiple tubes of fog.
- if you're just doing a still, fake it and paint on the picture to make the
tube look the way you want.

Nik.:
>...[in reference to the fog/light gig above]...
>I've got a question about your fog setting... What did ou mean by
>setting fog to 0.01 "for casting shadows" ?
>I haven't tried this as yet, so can you tell me what it means ?

I didn't see anyone answer your question directly, so I'll answer it.

The larger the fog number, the more transparent the object looks.  Using
a very small number will make the object look just like a solid, bright
object.  Shadow casting lights will pass through fog, but not through
bright objects.  So, to make a light you can see when using shadow casting
sources, use a fog object with a very short fog length.


later....               sk...



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #27 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Faster!!!!
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 20:24:23 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>

> Dont suppose anyone can supply me with the file format for Imagine objects
> could they?  I am interested in writing a coverter for converting between
> Imagine (Obviously!!) and CGAL (Ray-tracer for Apollo's).  Any info would
> be very helpful indeed!!
> I got a bit worked out but then got horribly lost in the hex editor!

A good place to start would be the Amiga Rom Kernel Reference Manual Devices
published by Addison Wesley ISBN 0-201-56775-X in the IFF TDDD.doc section.
This will give the basis of the format, but will not cover the latest
extensions.

Andrew


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #28 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: overlapping transparency & render times
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 08:58:18 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

> Why not do this in scanline? Transparent objects look fairly good in scanline

Mostly, I want shadows.  I do have some reflective things, but I could
probably live without that.  Shadows are a must though.

> RealSoft said they would support it. But I heard that US Cybernetics
> has been promising this card for over two years now.. So this could

>From what I've heard, it doesn't sound real good for this card.

On the other hand, some company (DKB?) is advertising some sort of card
for 4000/040s which they claim will give you an 80% increase in
rendering speed.  I didn't quite understand it though.  I thought at
first that it might use a 40 MHz 040 instead of 25 Mhz with a better
memory subsystem than the 4000 has.  But then the ad said that it only
runs at 25 MHz.  So I'm not sure what it does.

GVP, on the other hand, is rumored to have a 40 MHz 040 card, which,
with better memory, should be twice as fast as a current 4000.  Maybe
tide me over until the 060 cards get here.  Or RISC based amigas.  Or
until I can find a way to mount my amiga's filesystem from my PC over
RS-232 so I can upgrade my PC and render my projects on a 60 MHz
pentium.  Or until Imagine has a stand-alone rendering engine for
PA-RISC.

  - steve


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #29 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: RELAY BOUNCE
Date:     Thu, 3 Mar 1994 18:53:56 +0100
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

> >
> > hi,
> >
> > I was wondering if there exists a object converter which converts from
> > POV or VIVID object format to some amiga format (imagine, lightwave or sculp
t)?
> >
> > thanks,
> > dave Monachello
> >
> Vertex 2.0
>
> Do you live in Europe or America? I can give you the apropriate address
> for both:
>



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #30 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: The cupboard Flourescents
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 10:55:00 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

>
>   Regarding the "realistic", or at least effective rendering of light
>   emitted from a long flourescent tube...

>     It seems that the thought of a mirror system

 It was a feable attempt at humor:(

> or using many light
>     sources would work, but perhaps at an unecessary cost of rendering
>    times.  I guess it depends on the look you want in opposition to your
>    rendering capacities, hm?

>      egarding the flourescent tube, though, I'd definitely try the
>    conic light source with the oval shaped 'base'.
>
  Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear enough.  A conic light source with "extreme
axis difference...giving a planar effect" will give you a half-sphere light
source.  You will still have circular `patches' of light, not light distributed
along a line.  It would give you the effect of a light bulb, not a "tube of
light."

I think the several light source solution is the best solution for now.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #31 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Understanding Imagine
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 10:05:29 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

> > On Fri, 25 Feb 1994, Michael Whitten wrote:
> >
> > > Unfortunately, Worley's book has no tutorial for setting up animation, so

> >          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > If someone could please elaborate, I'd appreciate it.  What I'm mean is,
> > what exactly does "Understanding Imagine" contain concerning animation?
> > The main reason I want the book is so that I can learn how to do
> > animation.  Any info. appreciated.
>
> When Imagine came out, the manual was less than perfect, so Worley wrote a
> book about how to use Imagine, which, I'm told, is very good - what the
> manual should have been.  It seems (I dont actually have a copy myself -
> yet) that it doesnt say much about animations.
>
>
Uh, actually, your wrong :)

As it said above...Understanding Imagine contains no TUTORIAL on animation
(that I can recall).  That doesn't mean it doesn't explain it.  It describes
how to morph, setting up additional key frames, paths, hinging, etc.  Lots of
stuff that gets asked about here on the IML.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #32 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: The cupboard Flourescents
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 13:13:58 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

    The workings of an object light is that the light emanates from
the axis, its position not the object's position, thus an object with an
oval base with the attributes feature light turned on, would produce no
different affect than the same object with any infinite other varieties of
shapes possible for the base.

        [Tyrone Marshall] [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #33 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: postscript fonts that work
Date:          Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:32:57 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

>   Would you mide listing a couple that you've found to work?

This is a directory listing of the PS fonts (from the AT1Fonts-*.lha
series) I have found to work with imagine2.9 without conversion. Sorry I
didn't keep track of which *.lha they came from so to find which archive
they came from you'll need to d/l the AT1Fonts-INDEX.lha file from the same
directory aminet/text/font. As i mentioned previously I'm only about half
way through d/l'ing all the AT1* fonts.. so there will be more that work.


  ADLIB.PFB                        AN______.PFB
  BECKER.PFB                       BODONI.PFB
  BODONIB.PFB                      BODONII.PFB
  CAS_____.PFB                     CH_K.PFB
  CSDCHALK.PFB                     CUNEI.PFB
  DIEGO1.PFB                       DomCasual.PFB
  DomCasualThin.PFB                ENGLISHT.PFB
  Flash.pfb                        FLORENCE.PFB
  FU______.PFB                     GARMND.PFB
  GENOAITA.PFB                     GENOAROM.PFB
  GOCMASE_.PFB                     grr_____.pfb
  HEATHER.PFB                      HEIDELBE.PFB
  HE______.PFB                     IGLESIA.PFB
  KAUFMANN.PFB                     KELLYBRO.PFB
  KOALAB.PFB                       KOALAN.PFB
  KOR_____.PFB                     LINCOLN.PFB
  Lombardoc.pfb                    MINIPICS.PFB
  PAINTBR.PFB                      PERRYGOT.PFB
  ROMEO.PFB
  RSCHACHA.PFB                     RUG_____.PFB
  SECRETCO.PFB                     TEKTON.PFB
  TIEMPO.PFB                       UNCODSEC.PFB
  VIKING.PFB

>Would it be possible to fix it by loading it into type smith by Soft Logic
>or something similar?

Yes, there was mention of someone who had done just that... thou i don't
have that package. Maybe some may like to volenteer to convert the
unuseable PFB files to the correct postscript format ?

Cheers
Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #34 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Just some more goo...
Date:     Thu, 3 Mar 1994 17:06:49 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

How about adding support for ANIM-7 format to Imagine 3.0?

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #35 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Understanding ANIMATION and Impulse
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 15:23:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  A thought occurs to me as I hear talk of Worley's really helpful book and
  Impulse's history of documentational effectiveness...
    True, when I received Turbo Silver, I was an idiot. The
    documentation was enough to get me going, though.
    When Imagine came out, I admit it, I was thoroughly impressed and
    satisfied with the product but laughably disappointed with the feeble
    excuse for documentation that accompanied such a fine piece of s/ware.
    All jokes about Imagine documentation ended, though, when the 2.0
    manual was delivered to me.  I think it did the trick as much as any
    manual can.  It even gave spoon-fed tutorials that ANYONE could learn
    from.  The index is a little quirky, but seemed just a product of
    automated publishing, I don't know...

    My point here, though, is that Impulse cannot be responsible for
    teaching us to be good animators.  I think it's really up to us
    as hobbyists and business professionals to do our homework, study
    Muybridge's libraries of photos, Disney and all it's disgruntled
    ex-patriots, watch more Liquid Television and Mind's Eye videos for
    inspiration; THIS is where we'll learn about animation.  It is also
    true, however, that the company will want to explain to us how their
    wonderful tools WORK, yes.  Can't escape that!
    Blabbing again,
    wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #36 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 11:57:22 +1000 (EST)
From: MiKE <[e-mail]>

On Thu, 3 Mar 1994, Kiernan Holland wrote:

> <> Is 2MB too big for most people?  What size will people happily download?
> <Could you chop it up into convenient bite sized pieces (<720K) please? A few
of
try downloading it to a hard drive then backing it up (under dos 5 or
lower) and then use pc restore on the amiga.  Saves all that bother with
joining and shit.
MiKE




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #37 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Faster!!!!
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 19:12:07 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

as MR. R.L.COLLIER said,
<
<Dont suppose anyone can supply me with the file format for Imagine objects
<could they?  I am interested in writing a coverter for converting between
<Imagine (Obviously!!) and CGAL (Ray-tracer for Apollo's).  Any info would
<be very helpful indeed!!

Imagine and Turbo Silver object file format are almost
alike. Glenn Lewis (who is probably still on this group could tell
you about the format since he wrote T3D which lets you convert imagine
objects to a variety of formats, including a postscript wire-frame output...
)




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #38 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 20:07:43 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

as MiKE said,
<
<
<On Thu, 3 Mar 1994, Kiernan Holland wrote:
<
<> <> Is 2MB too big for most people?  What size will people happily download?
<> <Could you chop it up into convenient bite sized pieces (<720K) please? A few
 of
<try downloading it to a hard drive then backing it up (under dos 5 or
<lower) and then use pc restore on the amiga.  Saves all that bother with
<joining and shit.
<MiKE
<
<
<

There is also another way...

Splitlzh.c and Joinlzh.c
(splitlzh and joinlzh.. no big deal it is just some short binary splitting
programs written C..) Compile these on your UNIX system (or if your
system has a C compiler..) and compile them on your Amiga.. Then
split the files on the Unix side into 720K parts and dump to a
floppy disk.. By the way, 720K is not 720,000 its 720 * 1024,
so if this program creates something that is exactly 720,000 you'll
still have some space on the floppy disk.. I usually tar a set of
files, split the tar file, dump it to several floppies, join the parts together
on my hard drive and untar.. Tar will perserve directories, files and
even the file attributes..

****************************************************************************
Cover your eyes if you don't want to be tempted:
****************************************************************************
I've even found a way to change the times
on files.. *devilish Grin* Ever want to get an assignment in about 2 days
after the due date but couldn't change the dates on the files on the
UNIX system because the SU is the only one allowed to?? Well, I think
tar shares the SU's power so since tar on the Amiga doesn't preserve the
exact attributes, you can screw around with the time stamps by changing
your Amiga date, saving the files, and uploading them to the UNIX machine..
****************************************************************************

These programs split and join binary files:

/*
 * splitlzh - Split a LZH file into a multivolume archive suitable for
 *            processing by LhA.
 *
 * This is freely distributable. Do with it whatever you desire.
 *
 * Written by Stefan Boberg, 1992
 *
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

#define EXIT_FAILURE 1

FILE *open_vol(name, no)
char *name;
long no;
{
  char work[1024];

  if (no)
    sprintf(work, "%s.l%02d", name, no);
  else
    sprintf(work, "%s.lzh", name);

  return fopen(work, "wb");
}

int main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
  char buffer[1024];              /* Small I/O buffer */
  FILE *in, *out;
  long size, i, j = 1024, vol_no = 0;

  if (argc != 4) {
    printf("Usage: %s <arcsize in KB> <infile> <outname>\n", argv[0]);
    exit(EXIT_FAILURE);
  }

  size = atoi(argv[1]);

  if (in = fopen(argv[2], "rb")) {
    while (!feof(in)) {
      if (out = open_vol(argv[3], vol_no++)) {
        i = size;

        while((i--) && (j == 1024)) {
          j = fread(buffer, 1, 1024, in);
          fwrite(buffer, 1, j, out);
        }
        fclose(out);
      } else {
        fclose(in);
        printf("Error opening volume %d!\n\n", vol_no);
        exit(EXIT_FAILURE);
      }
    }
  } else {
    printf("Error opening source!!\n\n");
    exit(EXIT_FAILURE);
  }

  return 0;
}



/*
 * joinlzh - Join several parts of a LhA multivolume archive to one single
 *           LZH archive.
 *
 * This is freely distributable. Do with it whatever you desire.
 *
 * Written by Stefan Boberg, 1992
 *
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

#define EXIT_FAILURE 1

FILE *open_vol(name, no)
char *name;
long no;
{
  char work[1024];

  if (no)
    sprintf(work, "%s.l%02d", name, no);
  else
    sprintf(work, "%s.lzh", name);

  return fopen(work, "rb");
}

int main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
  char buffer[1024];              /* Small I/O buffer */
  FILE *in, *out;
  long j, vol_no = 0;

  if (argc != 3) {
    printf("Usage: %s <infilebase> <outname>\n", argv[0]);
    exit(EXIT_FAILURE);
  }

  if (out = fopen(argv[2], "wb")) {
    while (in = open_vol(argv[1], vol_no++)) {
      while(!feof(in)) {
        j = fread(buffer, 1, 1024, in);
        fwrite(buffer, 1, j, out);
      }
      fclose(in);
    }
  } else {
    printf("Error opening destination!!\n\n");
    exit(EXIT_FAILURE);
  }

  return 0;
}


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #39 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Imagine/Opal problem
Date:          Fri, 4 Mar 1994 16:58:59 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

Hi,
both myself and a friend have accelerated B2000/Opal/Imagine2.9, mine is
functioning perfectly ( apart from known bugs ) but my friends machine
which has a Mega Chip ( 2MB Agnus ) will not display correctly from Imagine
onto the opal. The opal is functioning OK in all respects apart from when
imagine ties to display on it, then a black 1" bar appears at the top of
the screen and the image is displayed out of sync giving a wavy look. The
rendered picture is fine and can be displayed using show24 or any other
viewer apart from Imagines.

I was hoping someone may shed some light on this problem. Is anyone else
running a 2000/opal/MegaChip with imagine2.9 ? and is it functioning ok ?
I need to know if its a Imagine problem or hardware ? could be another bug !

Cheers
Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #40 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 13:55:48 +1000 (EST)
From: MiKE <[e-mail]>

RE: 2 meg file sto amy.

On Thu, 3 Mar 1994, ecorbin wrote:
> Could you post a little how-to on the IML?

If your unix box is attached to an IBM with a HD, transfer the file to the
harddrive using whatever means available (ftp, maybe).
Use the DOS backup command under dos3,4,5 (*not 6*) to backup to 720k IBM
disks (insructions on dos Backup are to be found in dos-help). The easiest
thing to do is probably put the file/files in question into their own
subdirectory and then backup just this directory.
Go to aminet and find the latest copy of PCRestore (probably in util/back).
It is _very_ easy to use, with nice little GUI, and retores 720k disks to
an amy harddrive.
Thsi prog saves the hassle of spilliting and joining, and basically
involves only two commands (backup and restore) and some disk swapping.

Any q's, feel free to mail.
MiKE




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #41 ***************************************:-)

Subject: pal->ntsc imagine?
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:35:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Woo <[e-mail]>

hi, folx!  I'm new to this list, so bear with me.  I understand there
was a discussion about hacking the imagine 2.0 that came with that amiga
format issue, but I unfortunately joined too late to catch it  :)  is it
possible?  does someone have an archive of the discussion?  (it doesn't
seem to have made it yet to the IML archive.)

send private email if you'd rather not waste list bandwith!  :)  thanx!

- Chuck


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #42 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Faster!!!!
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 05:44:27 GMT
From: "Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~" <[e-mail]>

Kiernan> Imagine and Turbo Silver object file format are almost
Kiernan> alike. Glenn Lewis (who is probably still on this group could
Kiernan> tell you about the format since he wrote T3D which lets you
Kiernan> convert imagine objects to a variety of formats, including a
Kiernan> postscript wire-frame output...  )

    Thanks for the plug, Kiernan.  Yes, I sent the file format
directly to the requestor earlier today.  I hope he finds it useful.
If others would like it mailed to them, please e-mail me directly.
Thanks!
                            -- Glenn




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #43 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Lighting Principles
Date: 4 Mar 94 00:48:00 EST
From: "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>


For those out there interested in learning about basic photographic lighting
principles, a book I recommend is _Light - Science & Magic_ - An Introduction to

Photographic Lighting, by Fil Hunter and Paul Fuqua. Focal Press (imprint of
Butterworth Publishers), 1990. ISBN 0-240-51796-2.

I don't know if this book is still in print, I picked it up in a used book
store. It was probably used as a textbook and (so far) looks like many of the
principles discussed within can be applied to rendering; some with a little
more experimentation than others.

Good luck...

        DESIGN / TIME

                            I\/Iax I\Iomad



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #44 ***************************************:-)

Subject: object convertion
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 08:14:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Sandberg TBA <[e-mail]>

After looking in ftp.wustl.edu, i got really got interesting in converting
the objects that are in obj to a file that imagine can understand.

Is there any converter that can do just this, i would REALLY appreciate
any answer to my problem.

Have a nice day all of you

/[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #45 ***************************************:-)

Subject: TomSetzer
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 08:18:12 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

The colours are generated on the cube using a red light a green light and a blue

one, all pointing to the centre of the cube.

A couple of people have suggested taking off the phong shading but I have not
as yet had the chance to try this.

Rich.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #46 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE:CGAL
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 08:35:35 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

I'm afraid I cannot really!  The reason is that it is a friend studying
'Computer Animation and Visualisation' at Bournemouth University who is wanting

the converter, which thanx to Glenn I can do now :O)

All I can tell you is:-

It is written for and used on Unix Apollo's (Hewlett Packard?)
It was written by the senior lecturer there!!
It has sod all User Friendliness
It is VERY quick!!!
The objects/scenes/lights etc are all written in PASCAL!
(Basically CGAL is pascal import modules!)

I am currently trying to get hold of the lecturer in question's e-mail as I
have been informed that he's on it.  If I get it and you want it, Ill let you
know.

Rich.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #47 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 01:18:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>

There's also the Splitz and Jointz that comes with ADPro, these will
split any file, not just pictures, and an IBM and MAC version is
included.  I've noticed several Aminet posted items split by this
process.  I beleve that part or all of the Splitz and Jointz package can
be freely distributed for rejoining (not 100% sure of ASDG's policy tho).



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #48 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE:FileSize
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 09:30:48 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

As Jay and Tak say, 2MB is a wee bit too big.

My FileSpace is about 1/2 Gig so no probs there but I, like many
others, have gotto get it onto a 720k PC Disk to get it on my
Amiga.

I rekon the Split/Join LZH methods probably the best.

Cheerz for the source code Kiernan!

TTFN

Rich.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #49 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Compress utility for the amiga
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 06:51:50 EST
From: [e-mail] (John Rosner)

The objects at chinalake are in the unix compress (.Z) format.

Some time ago there was a compress for the amiga I've checked the
Aminet site ftp.luth.se and didn't find compress.

Can anyone point to where I could find it?

Thanks in advance,

John Rosner


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #50 ***************************************:-)

Subject: IM2.9 (INT) & Firecracker Driver
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 13:18:00 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ian Bale)

I noticed someone saying they had problems using the Interger version
of Imagine 2.9. Apparently it was looking for the Firecracker 24
driver. I don't remember any mention of whether this was sorted out or not.

Has anyone got the Integer version working OK without the Firecracker driver ?

        ==========================================================
            Sent by Elfrick:  [e-mail]
        ==========================================================
Note: Despite my e-mail address, I live/work in the UK, and have no connection
      with Sweden, other than working for a Swedish company. Please send
      replies in English, not Swedish. Thanks.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #51 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 12:21:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tak Tang <[e-mail]>

MiKE writes:
>
> Go to aminet and find the latest copy of PCRestore (probably in util/back).
> It is _very_ easy to use, with nice little GUI, and retores 720k disks to
> an amy harddrive.
> Thsi prog saves the hassle of spilliting and joining, and basically
> involves only two commands (backup and restore) and some disk swapping.

I've found PcRestore on fish 920 and in Aminet in misc/emu
Thanks to eveyone who replied with their tips, and code.

Tak

+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Tak Tang, Internet : [e-mail]    |   // Amiga 1500             |
| Southampton University, England               | \X/                         |
+-----------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #52 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Faster!!!!
Date: 4 Mar 1994   14:20:50 GMT
From: <[e-mail]>

>     Thanks for the plug, Kiernan.  Yes, I sent the file format
> directly to the requestor earlier today.  I hope he finds it useful.
> If others would like it mailed to them, please e-mail me directly.
> Thanks!
>                             -- Glenn
>

    Hi!  Yes....if you have any docs on the format please email me!
I probably won't get around to looking at it for a little bit...but it
will be useful for sure.

        Thanks!

    Mike Comet
    [e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #53 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Compress utility for the amiga
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 08:19:59 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>The objects at chinalake are in the unix compress (.Z) format.
>
>Some time ago there was a compress for the amiga I've checked the
>Aminet site ftp.luth.se and didn't find compress.
>
>Can anyone point to where I could find it?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>John Rosner


John;
Kent sent this to me (Thanks Kent) and I was able to find almost all of the
compressors plus a couple more on nic.funet.fi Good luck

                                Render Ho!
                                   Lesk

X-Sender: [e-mail]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:31:24 -0800
To: [e-mail] (Lesk)
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
Subject: Re: Files with the tar.Z extension

At  9:31 AM 2/28/94 -0700, Lesk wrote:

>Yes! Amiga! Yes! Tell me more!! Where do I get these commands etc. I would like

>to know where I can get them since I have downloaded lots of objects with
>this extension. Yes, Yes, Tell me more.....

Fish_53 TarSplit
                A port of the OS/9 program that extracts files from
                Unix tar archives.
                Author:  James Jones.  Amiga version by Mike Meyer.

Fish_445 Tar
                A port of a UNIX tar clone that can work with the TAPE:
                handler (also on this disk) to read and write UNIX tar
                compatible tapes.  Includes source.
                Author:  John Gilmore, FSF, Jonathan Hue, et. al.

Fish_838 GZip
                GNU zip is a compression utility designed to be a replacement
                for 'compress'.  Its main advantages over compress are much
                better compression and freedom from patented algorithms.  GZip
                currently defaults to using the LZ77 algorithm used in zip 1.9
                but can also decompress files created by zip, compress, or
                pack.  Version 1.0.5, includes source.
                Author:  Jean-loup Gailly

Also, you may find the following useful.

Fish_527 Lister
                Program to display information about files in various types
                of archives, such as arc, cpio, lharc, tar, zip, and zoo.
                Version 1.01, an update to version 1.0 on disk 518.  Includes
                source.
                Author:  Kerry Cianos and Geoffrey Faivre-Malloy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------






IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #54 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Understanding ANIMATION and Impulse
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:16:20 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)

>  A thought occurs to me as I hear talk of Worley's really helpful book and
>  Impulse's history of documentational effectiveness...
>        True, when I received Turbo Silver, I was an idiot. The
>        documentation was enough to get me going, though.
>        When Imagine came out, I admit it, I was thoroughly impressed and
>    satisfied with the product but laughably disappointed with the feeble
>    excuse for documentation that accompanied such a fine piece of s/ware.
>        All jokes about Imagine documentation ended, though, when the 2.0
>    manual was delivered to me.  I think it did the trick as much as any
>    manual can.  It even gave spoon-fed tutorials that ANYONE could learn
>    from.  The index is a little quirky, but seemed just a product of
>    automated publishing, I don't know...
>
>        My point here, though, is that Impulse cannot be responsible for
>        teaching us to be good animators.  I think it's really up to us
>    as hobbyists and business professionals to do our homework, study
>    Muybridge's libraries of photos, Disney and all it's disgruntled
>    ex-patriots, watch more Liquid Television and Mind's Eye videos for
>    inspiration; THIS is where we'll learn about animation.  It is also
>    true, however, that the company will want to explain to us how their
>    wonderful tools WORK, yes.  Can't escape that!
>    Blabbing again,
>    wes~
        Though I fully agree with the sources for animation inspirations
listed above, I feel there should, in the manual, be a tutorial explaining
step by step the process of putting together a simple animation that the
novice user can do and build upon in creating their own first animation.
One shouldn't have to glean the process from digging into references,
listed in the index, spread thoughout the manual in various chapters.
Sometimes it is easier to stop and ask directions than it is to drive
aimlessly around a neighborhood hoping to run into ones' destination and
wasting gas in the process.
        Counter blab,
                Brad
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #55 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Jello mutter... Jello fodder
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:45:24 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)

        Just as a further clarification to Scott Ks' Jello reference. The
article is in Computer Graphics Volume 21, Number 4 July 1987 ( A
publication of ACM SIGGRAPH). The author is "Paul S. Heckbert, Dessert
Foods Division, Pixar, San Raphael, Ca. To quote "This paper presents new
technology for ray tracing a restricted class of desert foods, in
patricular Jell-O brand gelatin. Our paper is divided into three parts:
methods for modeling static Jell-O, simulation of Jell-O motion using
impressive mathematics, and ray-Jell-O insection calculations." The article
even includes a color figure of lime Jell-O ray traced sitting on a red and
yellow checkerboard plain. And, God bless him, the author does indeed
mention "the computing a 100 x 100 image of a bowl of lime Jell-O using a
room full of Amigas."
                        later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #56 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Jello
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 94 14:14:25 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> > Check out "RayTracing Jell-O Brand Gelatin" in the ACM SIGGraph proceedings
> > in or about 1987(?).

> Does anyone know if this can be found on Internet?

There is an ftp site siggraph.org, and a server [e-mail]
which have the proceedings online from 1990 forward. But all previous years
are only available in hardcopy as far as I know. They may be ordered from
ACM Siggraph. The number is [phone] or email at [e-mail]
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #57 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 2.9 color problem
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 1994 14:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCADOO <[e-mail]>

When rendering a simple primitive sphere using just the color attribute
and other default settings I get a bull eye pattern on the object.  The
rings increase in size and decrease in brightness.  Quick rendering
lights H and V are set at zero changing them has no effect.  Have not
changed any of defaults on turn on.  What am I doing wrong or what default
do I have to change.  You can also see rings in brushmapping.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #58 ***************************************:-)

Subject: animation instructions
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 13:28:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dan Mahoney)

I was think that someone asked for instruction to animate.
so,,,,
I am doing this without the manual and program cuz they
is at home and I ain't.
so bear with me.

Simple imagine animation instructions for 2.0
Create project and subproject
    Goto action editor:
    enter 10 for number of frames
    hit the add requestion and click in second from left hand column under
    globals, might say (new),
    click on column under frame 1 and then click on column under frame 10
    then choose either light source, object or something else
    (this case we want lightsource)
    then with the add requestor still depressed do it again
   (but choose an object that you have already made ie, a sphere)
then save changes
then goto stage editor
  remember to select camera view
  go to frame 1 and move light and object where you want it,
  after you have finished, select each object, and hit
  RIGHT AMIGA 7  (these keys update the size,position and alignment)
  RIGHT AMIGA 8
  RIGHT AMIGA 9

  then do an SAVE, then an right amiga c, and goto frame ten
  then select the object and move it to the right.
  then while the object is still selected, hit
  RIGHT AMIGA 7
  RIGHT AMIGA 8
  RIGHT AMIGA 9
  then right amiga s to save, then go to make  and watch.
  then right amiga s to save, goto project editor,
  hit range, requester will respond with 1,10,1
  (start at frame 1 goto frame 10 in 1 frame increments)
  hit enter, frames 1 thru 10 will be highlighted.
  options for animations:
       for imagine rgb anims:
    click on bottom right requester (maybe make movie)
    asks a couple of questions.
    then after rendering hit the load, then play loop.
       for iff animations
       just render the frames to iff, then suck the 10 frames
       in thru dpaint or whatever iff animation program you got.

       [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #59 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 color problem
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 13:40:39 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  2:34 PM 3/4/94 -0400, MCADOO wrote:
>When rendering a simple primitive sphere using just the color attribute
>and other default settings I get a bull eye pattern on the object.  The
>rings increase in size and decrease in brightness.  Quick rendering
>lights H and V are set at zero changing them has no effect.  Have not
>changed any of defaults on turn on.  What am I doing wrong or what default
>do I have to change.  You can also see rings in brushmapping.

I'm guessing that you're using a 16-color display for this (e.g. no
AA or 24-bit video board)?  If so, you're probably seeing Imagine's
poor conversion of 24-bit (or 12-bit) to 4-bit for display.

I almost always keep ImageMaster/RT running in the background.  Whenever
I render, even when I quickrender, the first thing I do is to pull it
into ImageMaster to see what it *really* looks like.  The banding that
I see in Imagine is at almost always eliminated.

I'm sure the other commercial image manupulation programs, like ADPro and
Image F/X, will also give you a better conversion than what you see inside
of Imagine, but I can vouch for ImageMaster's superb dithering and palette
selection for presentation of 24-bit images on a 16-color display.

As with Imagine itself, there's a steep learning curve for ImageMaster,
but once you get a handle on it, you find that it's a very powerful
package.  It's also the least expensive of the big three.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #60 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Jello mutter... Jello fodder
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 14:36:01 PST
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)

Brad Molsen writes:
>
>         Just as a further clarification to Scott Ks' Jello reference. The
> article is in Computer Graphics Volume 21, Number 4 July 1987 ( A
> publication of ACM SIGGRAPH). The author is "Paul S. Heckbert, Dessert
> Foods Division, Pixar, San Raphael, Ca.
                             ^^^^^^^

That's San Rafael, CA.  Sorry, I couldn't resist, I used to live there.
             ^
And Pixar, at least part of it, is now in Richmond, CA - across the bridge.

FWIW...

--
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Computer Graphics, Animation, Video


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #61 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  2.9 color problem
Date:     Fri, 4 Mar 1994 18:25:31 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>and other default settings I get a bull eye pattern on the object.  The

Quickrenders are not dithering the colours so the result is the banding
that you have seen.  There's nothing really wrong.  Some of the bells &
whistles were taken out of quickrender to make it quicker.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #62 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3.0 Request....maybe?
Date: 5 Mar 1994   00:33:29 GMT
From: <[e-mail]>

Attn: Scott K.  (sorry i forgot how to spell your last name)

I was wondering if something in the config file could be added that lets
the user specify the starting pos and align (and size?) of the camera when
new projects are made.

It always seems to start in the top right aiming at an angle down.
I prefer to have it face straight on and pos at 0,0,-400.  (or maybe it was
+400)...whatever.   Anyhow, it's just kind of annoying to have to change it
every time i make a new anim.

In the same idea, adding a default anim length option in the config with this
would be nice.  That way it wouldn't always start with a 1 frame anim, but
whatever you put in the config file.

I think these might be pretty simple hacks....so if you've got the time it
would be appreciated!


Mike C.
[e-mail]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #63 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine to Qicktime Help!
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 20:00:16 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

Hello imaginuts!
        I was just offered the oppritunity to distribute an anim of mine on
a cd distribution of about 40,000 units. I would get a small percentage
maybe enough to get essence II or (Dream on..) an amiga 4000. Anyway the
criteria is that the anim has to play on both the Mac and the Pc. The Pc
should be easy enough But what about the Mac? (quicktime?)....



                                                    Thanks 600 rays per point
                                                    Render Ho!
                                                      Lesk






IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #64 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 2.9 Texture restriction to subgroups
Date:     Fri, 4 Mar 1994 22:18:49 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

I have recently tried restricting a texture to a subgroup of faces in
Imagine 2.9.  The result is the texture got applied to everything but
the intended subgroup.  I tried this again with a different object and
the result was the same.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #65 ***************************************:-)

Subject: full moon tonight?
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 22:54:53 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)

I am working on a night scene and I wondered if anyone has some good
attribute settings for the moon?
I have essence I and II, so feel free to suggest settings that use those
as well.

ADVthanksANCE

AdamB
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #66 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 color problem
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 94 08:51:13 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>

> When rendering a simple primitive sphere using just the color attribute
> and other default settings I get a bull eye pattern on the object.  The
> rings increase in size and decrease in brightness.  Quick rendering
> lights H and V are set at zero changing them has no effect.  Have not
> changed any of defaults on turn on.  What am I doing wrong or what default
> do I have to change.  You can also see rings in brushmapping.

It appears that the default Quickrender mode changed from 12 to 24 bit between
2.0 and 2.9. The 24 bit setting does not dither giving the banding effect.
Try changing the QUFF preferences parameter to RGBN-12.

Andrew


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #67 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 Texture restriction to subgroups
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 16:16:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>

On Fri, 4 Mar 1994, Jason B Koszarsky wrote:

>
> I have recently tried restricting a texture to a subgroup of faces in
> Imagine 2.9.  The result is the texture got applied to everything but
> the intended subgroup.  I tried this again with a different object and
> the result was the same.
>
> Has anyone else encountered this?
>
> Jason K.
> Cybernetic Expressions

    YES!  I had it happen only with the window textures.  The only way
I know of to work around it is to have only two subgroups and apply it to
the subgroup that you do not want it to show up on.  Not much help, I
know, but I don't know of much else.  Big Mike Halvorson knows about it,
so I assume that it will be fixed in 3.0




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #68 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Photographic Lighting
Date: 6 Mar 94 07:49:00 EST
From: "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>


Has anyone experimented with implementing 'true' photographic lighting in
their renderings? Particularly with the use of filter-objects to simulate
diffuse lighting for soft shadows, bouncing light off reflectors, and etc.
I've been doing a few tests with this, but haven't been able to come across any
workable solutions beyond simply using multiple light sources.

I guess in a nutshell I'm trying to figure out what real-world light principles

apply to Imagine. Any help/advice/info would be appreciated.

                        I\/Iax




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #69 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Photographic Lighting
Date: 6 Mar 1994   16:08:02 GMT
From: <[e-mail]>

> Has anyone experimented with implementing 'true' photographic lighting in
> their renderings? Particularly with the use of filter-objects to simulate
> diffuse lighting for soft shadows, bouncing light off reflectors, and etc.
> I've been doing a few tests with this, but haven't been able to come across an
y
> workable solutions beyond simply using multiple light sources.
>
> I guess in a nutshell I'm trying to figure out what real-world light principle
s
> apply to Imagine. Any help/advice/info would be appreciated.
>

    What you are trying to do is to simulate something called Radiosity.
There are Radiosity Ray Tracers out there but the problems is there are so
many calculations to do it is probably VERY slow...especially on PC's.

    Radiosity takes into account reflectance of light beams from objects etc...
ie:  if you light a room, something that my be in shadows in Imagine's renderer
might actually be illuminated since in reality light would be reflected and
bounced around from the walls.

    The only way to do this in imagine is to place tons of very low level
lights where ever you need.

    Of course soft shadows etc  will be implemented in 3.0 hopefully.  As
for Radiosity it will probably be a while until it's practical for anyone to
implement on a PC.

Mike C.
[e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #70 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Photographic Lighting
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 11:43:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>

When I was at SIGGRAPH in 92, HP had one of their high-end workstations
there showing off a radiosity rendering package.  It would render a scene
in near real-time, then it would take about 15-20 seconds for one iteration
of radiosity calculations and then 10-15 seconds for every iteration
thereafter.  If you calculate about 1/15th of a second for the scanline
rendering that comes out to about 30 times longer just for a rough first
pass using radiosity than for simple scaline rendering.

Just my two cents for perspective sake...

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel

            "...To Render:  By Any Means Necessary!!..."




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #71 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  full moon tonight?
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 12:31:29 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Tom Smith)

I just use an iff image of the moon, and map it onto a sphere. It works
great as both a color map, and a bump map.

                                             Tom the Smith


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #72 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Compress utility for the amiga
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 17:18:39 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

>
> The objects at chinalake are in the unix compress (.Z) format.
>
> Some time ago there was a compress for the amiga I've checked the
> Aminet site ftp.luth.se and didn't find compress.
>
> Can anyone point to where I could find it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> John Rosner
>

You will also need the unix command tar, issuing a 'tar -xf filename.tar'
will untar all files that have been compressed in the tar format, next you
will need compress and uncompress, both are unix commands, you need them,
issuing 'uncompress filename.Z' will uncompress the file, I would check
out your root directory of your internet sysAdmin, in the bin directory,
ask them for uncompress, compress, and tar, if you cannot get it, send me
a message back and I will see about putting them up on wuarchive, or its
other mirror site.




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #73 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Faster!!!!
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 17:23:39 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

>
>
> Kiernan> Imagine and Turbo Silver object file format are almost
> Kiernan> alike. Glenn Lewis (who is probably still on this group could
> Kiernan> tell you about the format since he wrote T3D which lets you
> Kiernan> convert imagine objects to a variety of formats, including a
> Kiernan> postscript wire-frame output...  )
>
>     Thanks for the plug, Kiernan.  Yes, I sent the file format
> directly to the requestor earlier today.  I hope he finds it useful.
> If others would like it mailed to them, please e-mail me directly.
> Thanks!
>                             -- Glenn
>
>
>

The file format is the TDDD, I remember seeing somewhere info on this file
format, I believe I saw the info somewhere on avalon.chinalake.navy.mil

        [Tyrone Marshall] [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #74 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2meg files...
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 17:26:14 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

>
> RE: 2 meg file sto amy.
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 1994, ecorbin wrote:
> > Could you post a little how-to on the IML?
>
> If your unix box is attached to an IBM with a HD, transfer the file to the
> harddrive using whatever means available (ftp, maybe).
> Use the DOS backup command under dos3,4,5 (*not 6*) to backup to 720k IBM
> disks (insructions on dos Backup are to be found in dos-help). The easiest
> thing to do is probably put the file/files in question into their own
> subdirectory and then backup just this directory.
> Go to aminet and find the latest copy of PCRestore (probably in util/back).
> It is _very_ easy to use, with nice little GUI, and retores 720k disks to
> an amy harddrive.
> Thsi prog saves the hassle of spilliting and joining, and basically
> involves only two commands (backup and restore) and some disk swapping.
>
> Any q's, feel free to mail.
> MiKE
>
>
>

    If you can call the system your internet account is attached to,
there are commands for downloading directory zmodem from that unix system
to your amiga, via modem, that is what I do, I believe you need sz, it
should be on the ftp.uu.net site.

        [Tyrone Marshall] [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #75 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine Render Images
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 10:22:46 EST
From: [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)

Hi all

Has anybody out there had problems with different size images generated from
a run?
I have Generated a small run of about 30 frames, all 12bit ham ILBM's
I tried importing them into ImageFX and DpaintIV and they both rejected the
images because they were different sizes to generate the animation.
I could however generate the animation in Imagine.
Is this a known BUG??



/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #76 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Fonts-Japanese
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 19:14:05 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Frederick Joseph Oko Jr.)

Has anyone found any Japanese fonts on aminet?

Thanks in advance,
Fred



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #77 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: full moon tonight?
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 21:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)

> I just use an iff image of the moon, and map it onto a sphere. It works
> great as both a color map, and a bump map.
>
>                                              Tom the Smith

Ok, so where can I get my very own IFF of the moon?
Adam B



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #78 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Retina and Imagine.
Date:     Sun, 6 Mar 1994 17:45:30 -0800
From: "Steve \"Vis\" Lopez" <[e-mail]>

Well it's almost tax return time, and I've decided I'm sick of standard
HAM.  Time for a decent 24 bit card. I think I realized this when I
printed out a pic I generated with imagine, and it looked better on paper
than on my screen. (color printer, 24bit file)

So anyway, what I need to know is, has anyone played with Retina?  Or EGS
spectrum, Picasso, etc.  I need to get 24 bit display capabilities, and
have heard that the Retina will emulate workbench at some pretty neat
resolutions, as well as force Non-Display Database using programs (?)
like Imagine, into using Retina modes for display. Of course it would be
easier if impulse would just use the display database so we can just tell
it what we want it to use. (not a flame-a suggestion!)

Anyone who has experience chosing a graphics card?  I could use some
input here.


Stuff you need to know...  Goldstar SVGA Monitor.
                              H-freq    V-Freq  Mode
        640x350    720x400    31.5k     70Hz    IBM VGA1,2
            640x480    31.5k    60Hz    IBM VGA3
            800x600    35.2k    56Hz     Super VGA
               1024x768    35.5k    87Hz    IBM 8514/A

The rest of the system info is below in my .sig.

Thanks in advance!

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]\
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/

Vis!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #79 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: object convertion
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 07:12:17 +0100
From: Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>

Hi lsa ?

InterChange Plus converts wavefront objects, it's the only
3D converter that succesfully handles GROUPED wavefront objects
(be sure the get v3.0)

    / Johan



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #80 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: full moon tonight?
Date:     Mon, 7 Mar 1994 01:39:07 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>> I just use an iff image of the moon, and map it onto a sphere. It works

>Ok, so where can I get my very own IFF of the moon?

I don't think a simple IFF pic of the moon would be as useful as a nice
mercator map of it.  Anyone know where I could find mercators of the moon and
other planets/moons?

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #81 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Photographic Lighting
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 09:40:17 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

>
>
> When I was at SIGGRAPH in 92, HP had one of their high-end workstations
> there showing off a radiosity rendering package.  It would render a scene
> in near real-time, then it would take about 15-20 seconds for one iteration
> of radiosity calculations and then 10-15 seconds for every iteration
> thereafter.  If you calculate about 1/15th of a second for the scanline
> rendering that comes out to about 30 times longer just for a rough first
> pass using radiosity than for simple scaline rendering.
>
> Just my two cents for perspective sake...
>
>
You got a price so we can get that `other' perspective.;)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #82 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Essence question
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 9:36:10 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    I am trying to reproduce the texture that is illustrated in the
    Fractalcolor section of the Essence Vol 1 manual.  I have tried
    Fractalcolor, Fractals color, turbcolor, and turbscolor.  I am
    getting close, but I still can't seem to get the colors to blend
    as smoothly as the one shown in the illustration.  I've played
    with all of the parameters and still can't get the effect.

    Which texture algorithm was used to produce the illustration and
    what were the parameters used.

    Also how can I get a paper tooth look?

    I am trying to get the following effect.

    I am trying to produce engineers grid paper with the grids drawn
    on an attractive soft purple and blue paper.
    I want to get an animated surface using very soft pastel colors.
    I want the colors to blend very smoothly; almost like smoke or
    paint (as suggested in the manual).  On top of this soft
    background I want an engineers grid.  I am applying these textures
    to a ground object.

    My desired effect is to have paper texture with turbulent colors.
    I'm animating some engineering concepts for a training video.
    I'll have the animation being done above this surface.  The
    gridlines give the animation an engineering look as well as a
    sense of depth.  At some point the viewing angle will change,
    showing the gridlines going into perspective.  It will add to the
    depth perception.  the animated background will add a little
    interest to an otherwise dull explanation without taking away from
    the intended instruction purpose.

    Any idea are welcome.

    Dale



        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #83 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Particles - Rain ?
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 01:57:19 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

I'm currently trying to use the Particle F/X. Well, suprise, suprise I am
not getting the results that I should be getting according to the 'manual'.

I have set an object to break apart ~ 750 units above the ground plane
and the Rain efect is chosen. Now, according to the manual, Gravitational
constant should be left at 1 - yeah, right. Leaving it at 1 means that
not even one particle reaches the ground. I've had to use 50 to get any
particles at all to reach the ground (set at Z=0). This occurs by the last
frame of
the effect. I thought that by then the whole lot should have reached the
ground ?

I haven't in fact been able to get all of the bits to reach the ground!
Any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong. All the other values in
the requester are at default. Rain and Bounce is chosen. elasticity 30%

Any info appreciated.

Nik.

[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #84 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Particles - Rain ?
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 13:31:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>

How many frames long is it?  Try 120 or so and crank up the elasticity.

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel

            "...To Render:  By Any Means Necessary!!..."




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #85 ***************************************:-)

Subject:  PatchMath020 status?
Date:  Mon, 7 Mar 1994 11:13:19 -0500
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>

Folks,

  Several weeks ago, PatchMath020 was mentioned as being useful for speeding
up Imagine 2.0.

  Was there any further comment (postive or negative) on its use? It sounds
like a good thing to do.

Thx
Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@BMERHB63          |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance Development         PHONE: [phone]                |
| Dept. 7D23                             ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Bell Northern Research                                                      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #86 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Essence question
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 11:35:30 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

Dale Rogers writes:

> I am trying to reproduce the texture that is illustrated in the
> Fractalcolor section of the Essence Vol 1 manual.  I have tried
> Fractalcolor, Fractals color, turbcolor, and turbscolor.  I am getting
> close, but I still can't seem to get the colors to blend as smoothly
> as the one shown in the illustration.  I've played with all of the
> parameters and still can't get the effect.
>
> Which texture algorithm was used to produce the illustration and what
> were the parameters used.
>

All of the illustrations in the manual use exactly the texture
defaults.  The texture shown is Fractalcolor. You must realize of
course that the simple act of printing an image in black and white
causes immediate distortion.  Here it looks like you are looking for a
softening of contrast; this isn't too hard to do.


> I am trying to produce engineers grid paper with the grids drawn on an
> attractive soft purple and blue paper.  I want to get an animated
> surface using very soft pastel colors.  I want the colors to blend
> very smoothly; almost like smoke or paint (as suggested in the
> manual).  On top of this soft background I want an engineers grid.  I
> am applying these textures to a ground object.

If you want a soft gradient of colors, I would recommend Blobc, which
applies just one extra color but gives you finer control over the way
the color is applied. You can control the contrast and coverage
percentages quite finely. Since you want the whole surface to be part
of a smooth gradient, you want the transition ranges to dominate; you
do not want any areas of solid color. I would do this by setting the
T1 gradient start and end to -0.5 and 1.5 respectively; the entire
band of noise will fall within this range. Set the T2 values high,
like 2.0, just to get them out of the way.  This causes any value of
fractal noise to map to some part of a single smooth transition from
your base color to your applied color.  After that, just about the
only parameters I would play with would be the "Initial scale size",
which will control how large the areas of color variation are, and
"Amplitude Ratio", which will boost the strength of small features as
compared to larger ones. (I really should have called that "Small
feature power" or something. Oh well.)


>  Also how can I get a paper tooth look?

You mean like where the paper has been torn out of a notebook? Easiest
way is a repeating brushmap applying transparency. A little tiny one
could be made in DPaint or whatever in just a few seconds.. no need
for something much bigger than 50x50. You could also try using
BumpArray, but it's easier just to make a custom edge with a bitmap
yourself; in fact this is an ideal case since you know eactly the look
you want.

If you want torn paper, then you can get an EXCELLENT torn edge using
Linearturb. This creates a transition with a ragged edge. Set the
transition width to 0, and apply a 255 255 255 transparency with the
texture to fade the object's edge into invisibility. Since this is
added with a ragged transition, it appears exactly like a torn
edge. Too cool.

Hope this helps,

-Steve
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #87 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: PatchMath020 status?
Date:          Tue, 8 Mar 1994 09:42:44 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

>   Several weeks ago, PatchMath020 was mentioned as being useful for speeding
> up Imagine 2.0.
>
>   Was there any further comment (postive or negative) on its use? It sounds
> like a good thing to do.

I gave it a go with V2.0 and 2.9 on a A1200 with a maths copro. I found no
difference with V2.0 although with V2.9 the rendering time reduced from
2:14 to 2:09 ( 3.8% reduction ). Both tests were only on a very simple
object in Trace mode. I am still yet to try it on my 040 machine. What was
interesting is that V2.0 rendered the same object in 1:58 ! It may have
just been the scene i was using. I'll run a better comparison later this
week on my 040 and mail the results.

Cheers
Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #88 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Full Moon
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 16:02:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)

I too have been looking unsuccessfully for a mercator projection of the
moon.  I hae recently heard of a probe that was built from off the shelf
parts and launched into lunar orbit for a photo mapping mission that is
currently going on. The reporter said that the images were attainable from
the internet in almost real time!  Does anyone have further info on this or
a projection?

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #89 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Global Reflection and the Commerical Look (tm)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:26:59 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

    Can someone please explain to me how the Global Reflection map
in Imagine2.0 works. I mean, I know how to use it and everything (that
isn't tough), but how exactly does it 'reflect'? Let me give an
example...
    Say you have a monochromatic grey cloudy sky IFF as your
Global Reflection map. The camera is facing a logo with chrome
attributes. The angle of the camera to the front faces of the logo is
90 degrees, or the camera is perpendicular to the logo. The front and
back sides of the logo have been made soft (de-phonged). For reference
sake chrome, in this case, is:

    Color         (0,0,0)
    Reflectiveity     (210,210,210)    No shininess or roughness,
    Filter        (0,0,0)         blah, blah, blah...
    Specular    (255,255,255)
    Hardness    (255)

    For simplicity no textures...

    Now, how much of the global map should be reflected in the
logo (specifically the front side/faces)? Usually a very tiny bit is
relected in the logo. It's hard to tell exacatly what effect the
global reflection map will have on a flat surface...

    Along the same lines... How do you get that 'commercial look'?
You've all seen it. Things are really luminecent (sic?). When it comes
to a realistic look I have no problems. But when I try to get a
'computery' look I can't... My lighting philosophy and background
comes from the theatre and sound stages (ie. conventional movie/studio
lighting). That works fine for the 'realistic' stuff, but I just can't
seem to get that highly polished metallic (yet not quite metallic)
look. Take, for instance, everything on network TV. The NBA or NFL
logo fly-bys. The clearly 'this is a flying logo' stuff... If anybody
has seen Autodesk's 3DSr3 Demo Reel, that kind of stuff...
    What's the secret? I came up with the idea that it was very
closely related to global reflection maps, but I haven't been able to
get the same results...
    Any ideas? Tips?

                        J.----->

E-Mail: [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #90 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Nasty 2.9 particle bug
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 21:49:14 GMT
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>

Hi.  Sorry if this is a repeat but _I_ never got it back...

This is about a nasty 2.9 particle bug...

Haven't seen anyone mention this on the list.

Don't set the emission % in the particle effect requestor to more than 100%.

On my Amiga, Imagine writes all over RAM (watchable with a Picasso board!)
and then gurus or locks up.

On the PC version it either locks up or dumps you out.


I assume bug reports on the IML will be seen by Impulse?


Can't wait for a good manual with lots of diagrams and example pictures (and
a strong binder!)


Jay
[e-mail]

ps: anyone want to share some good particle tips?  Put 'em up!



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #91 ***************************************:-)

Subject: NVS Productions wants your 3d!
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 15:23:09 -0700 (MST)
From: Jeanne Marie Bruns <[e-mail]>

Thought this might be of interest to all on the list:

We are producing a One Hour Television Special scheduled to be aired in
October 1994.  Targeted at children and families, the format will include 33
minutes of Stereoscopic 3D animation in anaglyphic format.

Specifically we are interested in reviewing animation for which the artist
has the original models and data sets - final work will be rendered in right
eye-left eye format and output to D2 or BetaCam SP tape.  Specific
rendering information will be supplied after initial review.  We are not
limiting time or content, but content should be appropriate for young
viewers (no more roaches please). Segments already approved include
space ships, scripted character animation and sports shots all have great
depth and movement out toward the screen.

A licensing fee will be paid upon submittal of completed work for the
final production.

I will be available to answer any questions, when contacting me please
include a phone number and hours to call.

Betsy Brunton
Director of R&D
NVS Productions - LLC
P.O. Box 771893
2135 Burgess Creek Road
Steamboat Springs, Colorado
80477   %   USA
303-879-7514 % VOICE
303-879-1270 % FAX
[e-mail]
73751,3471





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #92 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 2MB particle anim for Aminet
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 21:43:55 GMT
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>

Hello all -

I keep getting IML mail without a header - so... This is about '2MB particle
anim for Aminet'  (and, who we gonna call to fix this?)



Well, I didn't really mean to start a thread about anim sizes for downloads!
And I'm not having much load uploading anything!  Seems that the wizards at
src.doc.ic.ac.uk have got their access permissions setup all wrong - so I
cannot 'put' to aminet/new!  And when I try their 'incoming' directory I get
'Disk Full' error!  (src.. is an Aminet mirror - If I get it up there then
all will get it soon after)

I've shrunk it down a bit - the lha is now 1.6MB.  Once wuarchive gets it
I'll put up a note.

Fresh roadkill on the superhighway...

Jay
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #93 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: full moon tonight?
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:17:27 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Tom Smith)

Jason K. was saying that you would need a mercator map of the moon. This would
be nice, but a picture of the full moon works just as well when you use a flat
projection onto a sphere. If you light the side that the brush was projected ont
o
it will look like the moon. You don't need a map of the other side because you
wouldn't see it anyway. It's dark. Of course if you want to be able to light
any side of the moon, a mercator map would be ideal.

Sorry I can't upload my moon.iff brush to aminet, I temporarily can't log onto
my internet site through my modem, but I will upload it as soon as I can.

Tom


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #94 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: Full Moon
Date:          Tue, 8 Mar 1994 11:27:45 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

> I too have been looking unsuccessfully for a mercator projection of the
> moon.

Here  I go showing my ignorance... but what's a Mercator Projection ?

Paul.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #95 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Full Moon (fwd)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 17:04:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Christopher Barger <[e-mail]>

There are tons of space related images available from NASA.  Try FTP at
ames.arc.nasa.gov    I don't ever recall seeing anny mercator projections
of the moon, but maybe you could hack one.

Good luck.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 16:02:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "William V. Swartz" <[e-mail]>
To: Imagine Mailing List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Full Moon

I too have been looking unsuccessfully for a mercator projection of the
moon.  I hae recently heard of a probe that was built from off the shelf
parts and launched into lunar orbit for a photo mapping mission that is
currently going on. The reporter said that the images were attainable from
the internet in almost real time!  Does anyone have further info on this or
a projection?

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #96 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Full Moon
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 20:25:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenn R. Wilson" <[e-mail]>

> I too have been looking unsuccessfully for a mercator projection of the
> moon.  I hae recently heard of a probe that was built from off the shelf
> parts and launched into lunar orbit for a photo mapping mission that is
> currently going on. The reporter said that the images were attainable from
> the internet in almost real time!  Does anyone have further info on this or
> a projection?
>
>   //
> \X/ -BiL-

As for the mercator projection, I am unsure of the proper procedure, but
as for the probe, it is called Clementine.  You can access the pictures
via ftp at bozo.lpl.arizona.edu.  It is in the
/pub/spacecraft/clementine/images directory.  The file formats are jpg
and gif.  I have only downloaded two pictures, but thoses were
high-quality.  Hope this will help.

Glenn Wilson
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #97 ***************************************:-)

Subject: ideas..
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 20:36:40 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

Has Impulse ever thought about adding Dynamic Time Lines??
Like, say you wanted to extend a 200 frame to 2000, or
changing the timing on pieces of the animation??
I mean, like they could make the time lines dynamic with a
floating point number defining when events happened, then
just tell Imagine how many frames you wanted over what
event span... It would be a lot easier.. When I make animations
with Imagine, I get tha raw Array taste in my mouth...

I think they could do a lot better..
Unless they have with 2.9 (what I haven't had the nerve to
buy..)

Kiernan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #98 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Full Moon
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 23:34:08 -0500 (EST)
From: scott a king <[e-mail]>

Well they aren't mercators but they're almost as good.  I put some images of
the moon and mars and some comets that I got somewhere sometime that can be
used.  Especially if you cut a square out of the image it will map just fine.

They're on [e-mail]
in pub/amiga/space_gifs.

--
Scott
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #99 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: ideas..Timelines in animation
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 00:43:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Along the same lines, I have been doing alot of work for the first time
  on a Macintosh.  Cut and Paste functions seem integral to EVERYTHING in
  ways I really hadn't thought of before.  After using StrataVision, I was
  really impressed.
    At any rate, I've craved cut,copy,and paste type functions in Imagine's
    Action editor.  Anyone else ever have the same thought? Perhaps, yes,
    draggable timelines, too.  Dunno, really. I should be asleep.
    wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #100 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Retina and Imagine.
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 22:00:52 +0100
From: @imp.ch:[e-mail] (Andreas Gutzwiller)

Hi Steve (Steve \"Vis\" Lopez), in <Pine.3.89.9403061723.A23775-0100000@hebron.c
onnected.com> on Mar 6 you wrote:

> So anyway, what I need to know is, has anyone played with Retina?  Or EGS
> spectrum, Picasso, etc.  I need to get 24 bit display capabilities, and
> have heard that the Retina will emulate workbench at some pretty neat
> resolutions, as well as force Non-Display Database using programs (?)
> like Imagine, into using Retina modes for display. Of course it would be
> easier if impulse would just use the display database so we can just tell
> it what we want it to use. (not a flame-a suggestion!)
>
> Anyone who has experience chosing a graphics card?  I could use some
> input here.

I use an A2000 (EIZO Flexscan 9060s) with a Retina 4MB. The Wb and Imagine works
 in a
resolution of 800x600. You can work in the different editors but you can't
show pictures or animations direct!!
You must show a picture with a show programm.
For anims you must render every picture. Then you have a Programm (RACE)
which generate an animations which you can play on the grafik board!


              ^^
     xxxx     xxx
   xxxxxxxx xxxOxxx  _       Andreas Gutzwiller
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 /xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       FIDO:  2:301/707.7
/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       AmigaNet: 39:110/101.7
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/       AmiNet: 44:8010/101.7
   xxxxxxxxxxx    xx     InterNet: [e-mail]
    xxx   xxx
    xxx   xxx


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #101 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Some Unix files
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 2:37:50 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

To everyone:

I am uploading sz (Zmodem send) sz.doc (Documentation) rz(Zmodem receive)
as UZmodem.lha UZmodem.readme, the infamous Unix lha as Lha.lha and
Lha.readme, and as a special treat Compress and Uncompress as -.Z-.lha and
-.Z.-.readme to the Wuarchive.wustl.edu pub/aminet/util/misc directory

In response to the queries made by various people, sz is the opposite of
what it says in workings, it actually sends to your modem a file from the
unix system you are currently logged on to, it is very simple to use,
comes with rz for uploading a file from your amiga system to the Unix
system you are logged on to, it is the Unix version of Zmodem, and if you
type more than one file name, it batch sends or receives, 'sz filename1
filename2' to get something into your Amiga system, and 'rz filename1
filename2' to do the reverse.

Compress and Uncompress are for those almost extinct '.Z' compressed
files, these two files are Unix programs, that you type from the Unix
system you are logged onto, 'Uncompress filename' to take off the .Z,
'Compress filename' to put the .Z (archives it).

The lha file is self-explanatory, just type lha for instructions, same as
the lha's for amiga.

I will also be sending up a Tar.lha and Tar.readme, this will unarchive
files with '.tar' extensions, just type 'tar -xf filename.tar' to undo it,
you will need to type tar (return) to get the instructions to archive a
file using tar.

I have uuencode and uudecode if anyone thinks it would benefit us as well,
I could send them up, these two goodies will take a binary file and make
it a mailable email file, then all you do is uudecode it, of course it
would have needed to be uuencoded, if there is a need ask.

            [Tyrone Marshall] [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #102 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine 2.9 Fails to Execute
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 08:57:14 GMT
From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])

I recently received may copy of Imagine 2.9, but as yet have been unable to get
neither the INT nor the FP versions to execute.

When invoked from a shell, I get the message :

'Imagine failed to execute with return code 14'

I have an A1200 with FPU expansion (no extra memory as yet !) and an external
high density floppy. I have been trying to execute from the external floppy.

My Imagine2.0FP operates fine with this configuration, as do other programs
that use the FPU.

Anyone got any ideas whats going wrong ?

- Nigel


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #103 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Imagine 2.9 Fails to Execute
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:19:08 EST
From: [e-mail]

The problem is that you need more ram.  I had the same problem on my stock
1200.  Imagine 2.9 takes up almost 2 megs of ram when it is all loaded.  It's
much bigger than 1.1 and 2.0.  The LOAD flag in the config has been disabled in
2.9/3.0.  That doesn't help either.  The only solution is to get more ram.

Nick


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #104 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: ideas..Timelines in animation
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 07:36:48 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>  Along the same lines, I have been doing alot of work for the first time
>  on a Macintosh.  Cut and Paste functions seem integral to EVERYTHING in
>  ways I really hadn't thought of before.  After using StrataVision, I was
>  really impressed.
>    At any rate, I've craved cut,copy,and paste type functions in Imagine's
>    Action editor.  Anyone else ever have the same thought? Perhaps, yes,
>    draggable timelines, too.  Dunno, really. I should be asleep.
>    wes~
I think this was part of the discussion awhile back about Imagines
implementation on the Amiga. Needless to say many were not happy with
impulse.
If you look at the amiga manuals you will find information on "clipboards"
this is a standard function of the amiga OS unless the developer has failed
to implement it....


                                                                Render Ho!
                                                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #105 ***************************************:-)

Subject: DPS did a great job...
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 8:46:25 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Last night I was trying to view a 24bit file I had created using
    Imagine.  My PAR has a view option, and the picture quality is
    much better than DCTV.  When I tried to start PAR, I received a
    hardware problem... <groan>.

    I remembered that DPS includes a TEST (diagnostics) program with
    the PAR.  I ran the board through it's diagnostics and everything
    worked fine until it got to the IDE drive test.  I just had work
    done on my Amiga by my local service guy and the thought accured
    to me that the problem might be as simple as a disconnected cable.

    I pulled the cover off, and sure enough... the IDE cable was only
    partially connected.  I connected it up, and voila... it works
    fine.  The diagnostic test, supplied with the PAR, made
    troubleshooting this very easy.

    It put a smile on my face so I thought I'd pass on my good
    experience.  I see messages periodically asking about the quality
    of the PAR.  This feature definately saved me a lot of time and
    aggrivation.  Last night I spent my time learning about Essence
    instead of getting my computer ready for another trip to my
    dealer.  Good job DPS.

    Speaking of Essence.  Steve Worley posted a suggestion about using
    Blobc to get the color effects I wanted.  I tried the suggestions
    last night.  Excellent!  Just what I was looking for.  Now I need
    to work on trying to speed things up.  My render time for two
    textures was terribly slow.  Would my plane render faster if I used
    a plane instead of a ground object?

    BTW, the paper tooth effect I am looking for is not so much the
    raggedy edge as described but more the surface texture of the
    paper itself.  Case in Point, illustration board has a different
    "tooth" than water color paper.  The surface is rougher and so
    reflects the light differently.  However, the raggedy edge effect
    was a great idea and I'm considering that one too.  :)  I've seen
    a lot of computer generate graphics on the Learning Channel, or
    Bravo where images look like they are done on a paper surface with
    a large tooth.  The calculation time might be intense though.
    Maybe this effect is better acheive through an image processor
    like ADPro.  Due to the design of the animation though it would be
    a lot easier to achieve the effects in Imagine, as opposed to
    having a compositing nightmare later on.  The animations show
    diffused images on paper passing by.  At the same time clear
    images, or 3-D objects are passing over the top of the paper.   It
    is a very nice effect.

    ideas?


    Dale



        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #106 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Me again....
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 09:19:14 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]

Greetings,

Thanx for all the advice on getting an anim up on aminet - for
the time being, I've given up.  I only tried a couple of times
and gave up - I don't have the time - Just way too busy here.
When I get the time I'll put it up.

On another subject, if you've got bugs you want to be sure we
know about, mail (regular paper mail) them or fax them to us.
I'm the only one here that is paying close attention to the
IML and I'm too busy to be cataloging the bugs that are being
mentioned up here.

There is one bug I've heard mention that I am interested in
because we can't dup it - Some have mentioned enforcer hits
within Imagine while changing attributes.  We need more info.
Are you altering attributes in faces or object or group mode?
Is there textures? - which ones?... Brushes?  What software
version?  What computer?...  (email is ok for this bug -
[e-mail])

thanx in advance...                        sk....


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #107 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: ideas..Timelines in animation
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 10:17:01 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|>  Along the same lines, I have been doing alot of work for the first time
|>  on a Macintosh.  Cut and Paste functions seem integral to EVERYTHING in
|>  ways I really hadn't thought of before.  After using StrataVision, I was
|>  really impressed.
|>    At any rate, I've craved cut,copy,and paste type functions in Imagine's
|>    Action editor.  Anyone else ever have the same thought? Perhaps, yes,
|>    draggable timelines, too.  Dunno, really. I should be asleep.
|>    wes~
|I think this was part of the discussion awhile back about Imagines
|implementation on the Amiga. Needless to say many were not happy with
|impulse.
|If you look at the amiga manuals you will find information on "clipboards"
|this is a standard function of the amiga OS unless the developer has failed
|to implement it....

    If I remember correctly, 3.0 is supposed to have cut/copy/and
    paste functions in the action editor.  I'm not sure about the
    draggable timelines.  That would be a nice feature.  I'm
    constantly have to adjust the size of animations a little here and
    there; as well as adjusting elements within the animation.

    Dale

        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #108 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Imagine 2.9 Fails to Execute
Date:     Tue, 8 Mar 1994 11:41:43 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>I recently received may copy of Imagine 2.9, but as yet have been unable to get

>neither the INT nor the FP versions to execute.
...
>I have an A1200 with FPU expansion (no extra memory as yet !)

I assume then you only have 2 megs of chip memory on your machine.  If this
is the case then you don't have enough free RAM to run Imagine 2.9.  It
requires more memory than 2.0 and 2.9 does not support the option to load
only individual modules anymore.  The button is there in prefs but it doesn't
work and will be removed altogether in 3.0.

So, you'll need more memory.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #109 ***************************************:-)

Subject: slicing
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 12:20:19 -0600
From: christopher arthur <[e-mail]>

  `
 Hello.  I'm trying to slice an object in imagine 2.1, but I keep
getting this 'error2'.  Basicially, I'm using a flat plane object
as a knife, and I'm trying to cut the corners off of a more
complicated object, but it isn't working.  Why?  Any suggestions
on how to remedy the problem?  Please respond directly to my
email address as I'm not yet subscribed to the mailing list.
Thanks.
 Chris.
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #110 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Full Moon
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:28:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 7 Mar 1994, scott a king wrote:

> Well they aren't mercators but they're almost as good.  I put some images of
> the moon and mars and some comets that I got somewhere sometime that can be
> used.  Especially if you cut a square out of the image it will map just fine.
>
> They're on [e-mail]
> in pub/amiga/space_gifs.
>
> --
> Scott
> [e-mail]
>

Is this a telnet site?  Are there any passwords?  If it's ftp, then the
address is composed wrong...  Ya can't ftp to an account.  :^)

-Ray Collett



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #111 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: ideas..Timelines in animation
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:42:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>

On Tue, 8 Mar 1994, Dale R Rogers wrote:

>
>     If I remember correctly, 3.0 is supposed to have cut/copy/and
>     paste functions in the action editor.  I'm not sure about the
>     draggable timelines.  That would be a nice feature.  I'm
>     constantly have to adjust the size of animations a little here and
>     there; as well as adjusting elements within the animation.
>
>     Dale
>
>         ____________________________^____________________________
>         dale r. rogers
>
>         Intergraph Corporation
>         Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
>         [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
>                                     .
>

With draggable timelines, It'd also be nice to have little 'buttons' at
each end of the time line so that the length can be changed with the mouse.

-Ray Collett




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #112 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: Retina and Imagine.
Date:          Wed, 9 Mar 1994 09:26:15 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

> Anyone who has experience chosing a graphics card?  I could use some
> input here.

I use an Opalvision card with imagine2.9 . Apart from being able to play
back 24/18/15/bit Lores overscan animations (upto 60 fps, thou i've only
seen 25 fps in PAL), a nice feature is being able to quickrender or full
render to the opal and watch as the image is drawn top down (stills can be
displayed in Hires overscan).
Opal is only a display card so does not emulate workbench as with the
retina.

The purchase of the Opal and a GForce040 has increased by productivity to
the stage where I am now producing 3D anims professionally. With a good
single framing controller s/w package I am able to d/l hires anims to my
clients M2, another way would be to use PAR although it was cheaper for me
to invest in the single framing s/w and utilise the clients video deck.
Sorry if i've blabbed on, I just wanted to let people know that it's not
that difficult to make $$ from your hobby.

Good Rendering
Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #113 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Circuit Board
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 14:10:23 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Trachtinberg)


Does anyone know where I could find an object of a Circuit Board in either
Imagine or Light Wave format (or actually any format that Pixel 3D could
port over)?  Many thanks in advance :)

 -Jonathan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #114 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Retina and Imagine.
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 21:52:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Alex..." <[e-mail]>

    [Request for info on the Retina and Picasso etc. deleted...]

> I use an A2000 (EIZO Flexscan 9060s) with a Retina 4MB. The Wb and Imagine wor
ks in a
> resolution of 800x600. You can work in the different editors but you can't
> show pictures or animations direct!!

    I've got Imagine 2.0/2.9 on my A4000 in 1024x768.  It is great,
    really fast and very nice to use!  I must admit, having a nice
    chunky 17" monitor is a help +Bo)

> You must show a picture with a show program.

    The Retinas RetinaDisplay does fine for this.

> For anims you must render every picture. Then you have a Program (RACE)
> which generate an animations which you can play on the grafik board!

    Let me just add here that these anims are either 8 bit (256 colours),
    16 bit (hi-colour), or 24 bit (true colour) depending on personal
    preference.

    I've find that a nice 24 bit 320x256 preview anim is really cool
    and doesn't take as much disk space as you would expect (I could
    post some figures if people wanted *Bo)

    Hope this helps,
            Alex...

>    xxxxxxxx xxxOxxx  _       Andreas Gutzwiller
>    xxxxxxxxxxx    xx     InterNet: [e-mail]

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #115 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Full Moon (fwd)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:59:40 -0500 (EST)
From: scott a king <[e-mail]>

> > Well they aren't mercators but they're almost as good.  I put some images of

> > the moon and mars and some comets that I got somewhere sometime that can be
> > used.  Especially if you cut a square out of the image it will map just fine
.
> >
> > They're on [e-mail]
> > in pub/amiga/space_gifs.
> >
> > --
> > Scott
> > [e-mail]
> >
>
> Is this a telnet site?  Are there any passwords?  If it's ftp, then the
> address is composed wrong...  Ya can't ftp to an account.  :^)
>
> -Ray Collett

archive is the host name.

archive.cis.ohio-state.edu  is
ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu      which is
128.146.8.52

Sorry, it was late, I was in a hurry, and I assumed you'd figure it out.


--
Scott
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #116 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Circuit Board
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 18:07:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Kilkenny <[e-mail]>

On Tue, 8 Mar 1994, Jonathan Trachtinberg wrote:

>
> Does anyone know where I could find an object of a Circuit Board in either
> Imagine or Light Wave format (or actually any format that Pixel 3D could
> port over)?  Many thanks in advance :)
>
>  -Jonathan
>


    It's pretty Easy to make one.  I think Someone posted that if you
use that Dethstar texture from 2.9 and mess with the requesters.  I think
there is one thing you change like the size to .05 or something.  Anyway
It will look pretty much like a printed circuit board.  Hope that Helps


    - eric Kilkenny



::[e-mail]...::

:::::F R I Z Z L E  F R Y:::::

Hello all you Boys and Girls.
I'd like to take you to the inside
world.
It's quite an irregular place to
Be.
But Never Fear You're Safe with
Me.
Well,  Mabey.

       - Lester Claypool

:::::::AMIGA 2500 030 @25mhz:::::::
:BASS PLAYING,  RENDERING MANIAC!!:


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #117 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: I just can't Imagine (how to...)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 22:21:36 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Anders Lattermann)

To: [e-mail]

Hallo Folks!

I have two questions about Imagine, AF-user as I don't have any manuals, so we
have to ask here. I've upgraded to 2.9, but no good manuals in that package
neither...

1) I want to map letters to the side of a simple car I have made. I made some
white letters on a black background in DPaint. I have tried normal
brushmapping, which works nice except: I don't want the background color (
black) to apply to my car. So, is there any way of getting the background
color counting as transparent?

2) I'm working on another car. The frame and wheels are pretty easy, it's the
cabin that's bugging me. I got a nice shape of it in the forms editor, but I
don't find a way to make windows. How does one cut out the holes for them, and
how does one get the right shape of the windows afterwards?

Thanks!

/Anders Lattermann

FidoNet:  2:201/411.24              ! PointBreak - Bg-St-Maurice - France
AmigaNet: 39:164/100.24             !     A3000/14/105 + SQ88C & 17xSQ800
InterNet: [e-mail] !  I feel the need, the need 4 speed!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #118 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Rendering time woes
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 8:57:53 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Hi,

    I was rendering a simple scene last night.  One plane with two
    Essence textures (blobc, and gridmesh).  I also have another
    simple object consisting of 3 tube primitives (no textures).  I
    have 3 light sources set up in a triangular configuration.




                            Top view

                  -----------------------------
                  |                plane      |
                  |                           |
                  |                           |
                  |                           |
                  |                           |
                  |     o        o light      |
                  |        |                  |
                  |        | 0 camera         |
                  |     ___|_________         |
                  |          tube object      |
                  |                           |
                  |      o                    |
                  |                           |
                  |                           |
                  -----------------------------



                      Front (elevation) View


                        o o       o lights


                             0 camera



                         _____________  tube object

                   -----------------------------  plane




    this simple scene took me 31 minutes to render.  I have a 2500/30,
    25 MHZ, 4 meg RAM.  I am working on a project that has to be
    finished in a week.  I estimate the animation to be around 960
    frames.  At this speed it will take me 20 days to render the
    animation.  I don't have this luxury.  Should I be getting better
    rendering times than this?  If so, can someone offer some
    suggestions for speeding things up?


    Thanks,

    Dale



        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #119 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: I just can't Imagine (how to...)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 11:25:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Well, there's two things to remember about so-called 'decal' maps.  The
  only colour which will be transparent when the 'genlock' option is
  selected in the BRUSH requestor    is colour zero (0).  The topmost
  colour in your DPaint pallette, no matter what colour it is.  Don't know
  how long I went thinking that any color register would work as long as it
  was pure black...Heh...
    Also, if you are going to drill holes, the slice option in Imagine
   might not be TOO painful. Simply draw window shapes with ADD LINES onto
   an empty axis in the front view, extrude it into a cookie cutter of
   appropriate length, position it against and through your cabin shape,
   and SlIcE.  If all goes well, you won't have TOO many extra polygons to
   deal with.  At any rate, the difference pieces in the slice may provide
   nice windows if made clear.  Roll 'em up and down, maybe explode them in
   a crash....   bleh, thinking again!
   wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #120 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 Texture restriction to subgroups
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 02:26:51 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Fri, 4 Mar 1994, Jason B Koszarsky wrote:

>
> I have recently tried restricting a texture to a subgroup of faces in
> Imagine 2.9.  The result is the texture got applied to everything but
> the intended subgroup.  I tried this again with a different object and
> the result was the same.
>
> Has anyone else encountered this?
>
> Jason K.
> Cybernetic Expressions
>
I and a few of my friends have also come up against this. It is a bug,
and one which I think that Impulse is aware of. Scott ?

This worked fine in 2.0. I guess that they reversed some value somewhere...

Nik.
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #121 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Photographic Lighting
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 02:37:35 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On 6 Mar 1994, J_GEORGE wrote:

>
> Has anyone experimented with implementing 'true' photographic lighting in
> their renderings? Particularly with the use of filter-objects to simulate
> diffuse lighting for soft shadows, bouncing light off reflectors, and etc.
> I've been doing a few tests with this, but haven't been able to come across an
y
> workable solutions beyond simply using multiple light sources.
>
> I guess in a nutshell I'm trying to figure out what real-world light principle
s
>
> apply to Imagine. Any help/advice/info would be appreciated.
>

I remember reading a tutorial a while ago now in an issue of, sadly now
defunct Avid, on ray-tracing for photo-realism in Imagine.
As your exeriments have shown, the author used a large number of
different light sources to make the scene realistic. Many sources were
diminishing. Ray-trace mode is needed of course.

There was also an article in a relatively recent Amazing Computing on
realistic scene setup in Imagine. Again, multiple light sources were used.

BTW, for some of the effects you describe above, Radiosity is needed.
E.g. the light in Imagine (and most other ray-tracers I would guess) will
not actually bounce off a mirror-type object and illuminate another one.
Radiosity is needed for this. So, you gotta cheat with multiple lights
(this is in fact what the second article was talking about).

Nik.
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #122 ***************************************:-)

Subject: IML Archives
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 10:50:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael Whitten <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 21 Feb 94 16:04:07 +0200, [e-mail]
(Anders Lattermann) wrote:

> MWM> I am currently reading the IML
> MWM> archives (I'm on archive03 out of 30+ archives and it is quite
> MWM> interesting to see the  development of user-based knowledge of Imagine
> MWM> accrue.
>
>I would really like to get hold of these archives. I got Imagine from
>AF, so I' m a little lost without a manual.
>
>I'm reading UseNet through a gate, so I can't get them through request.
>Do you care to send them to me, in ASCII or UU-coded emails?
>
>Thanks!
>
>/Anders Lattermann

Anders replied directly to me re the archives; I hope he doesn't mind my
quoting his msg, because I think many AF Imagine newbies (like me) could
benefit from them.  To Anders......well, it must be rough reading through
a gate like that.  The IML archives are stored at ftp.wustl.edu in
systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine/archive (whew!).  If there's any way
possible for you to FTP them from that site, give it a try.  There are 39
of them - each in lharc format - and total almost 2.5 megs UNCOMPRESSED.
Yowwww!  I'm still only up to archive 10 (I like to keep my nose in
Imagine rather than text screens, but they are still VERY helpful.)
Perhaps a friend can ftp for you; if not, then perhaps SOMEONE here on IML
has a method for you to receive them.  I'm not a great UNIX person and
would have, I'm sure, a difficult time uuencoding these huge files to
you.  Anybody have an idea?

Michael


 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 +    M.D. Whitten   [e-mail]    Sentience is overrated.   +
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #123 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Rendering time woes (fwd)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 10:28:50 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

Forwarded message:
|From daemon Wed Mar  9 10:23 CST 1994
|From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
|Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
|Subject: Rendering time woes
|To: [e-mail] (Imagine Mailing List)
|Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 8:57:53 CST
|X-Mailer: ELM [version 07.00.00.00 (2.3 PL11)]
|
|
|    Hi,
|
|    I was rendering a simple scene last night.  One plane with two
|    Essence textures (blobc, and gridmesh).  I also have another
|    simple object consisting of 3 tube primitives (no textures).  I
|    have 3 light sources set up in a triangular configuration.
|

    Damn... I hate ascii editors and tab stop setting differences.
    All the lights, and the camera, are centrally located over the
    plane and tube object.  Just in case you were wondering.

    Dale


|
|
|
|                            Top view
|
|                  -----------------------------
|                  |                plane      |
|                  |                           |
|                  |                           |
|                  |                           |
|                  |                           |
|                  |     o        o light      |
|                  |        |                  |
|                  |        | 0 camera         |
|                  |     ___|_________         |
|                  |          tube object      |
|                  |                           |
|                  |      o                    |
|                  |                           |
|                  |                           |
|                  -----------------------------
|
|
|
|                      Front (elevation) View
|
|
|                        o o       o lights
|
|
|                             0 camera
|
|
|
|                         _____________  tube object
|
|                   -----------------------------  plane
|
|
|
|
|    this simple scene took me 31 minutes to render.  I have a 2500/30,
|    25 MHZ, 4 meg RAM.  I am working on a project that has to be
|    finished in a week.  I estimate the animation to be around 960
|    frames.  At this speed it will take me 20 days to render the
|    animation.  I don't have this luxury.  Should I be getting better
|    rendering times than this?  If so, can someone offer some
|    suggestions for speeding things up?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #124 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 11:09:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael Whitten <[e-mail]>

Yep.  Imagine doesn't seem to be able to do displacement maps.  I'm not
talking about Imagine's altitude maps - they are a light trick.  I'm
trying to figure out a way to create/import the real thing....actual
objects (planes) whose point's/edge's/face's z vector is offset thru
some 2d map.  POV does this with its height_field feature.  (BTW, funny
thing about the nomenclature:  POV's height_field is what Steve Worley
calls displacement map; POV's bump_map is Imagine's altitude map.  Height,
displacement, bump, altitude.........let's call the whole thing off!)

Anyway, is anyone aware of some method of generating displacement maps
for Imagine, perhaps through TDDD?  Can POV object scripting SOMEHOW be
translated to Imagine object format?  Any comments on this are welcome.

Michael

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 +    M.D. Whitten   [e-mail]    Sentience is overrated.   +
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #125 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Nebula Effect?
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 10:32:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

   Anybody have any success, suggestions, tips or ideas about how to make a
nebula object for Imagine?  If you have seen Babylon5, there are always
wispy gaseous nebulas in the stellar background.  While this is
scientifically inaccurate, it is a neat effect.  It is fairly easy to do
with Lightwave but I am not having much success in trying to accomplish this
in Imagine.  I have been trying to take a primitive sphere, using drag
points/magnetism with dome, pushing and pulling to make a "cloud-like"
object, and applying a fog attribute with a radial texture to try to get it
to have a more diffuse look towards the edges.  Anyway, this is not working
out well at all.  The object has to have a varying transparency; the stars
in the background have to show through, brighter in the diffuse areas and
dimmed through the thicker regions.  With the fog attribute, all I get is a
big blob that looks like cotton candy.  Anybody experimented with this and
gotten satisfactory results?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #126 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Rendering time woes
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 12:55:07 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|    Hmmm... sounds like you are in a bind.
|First thing to try might be to play with the EDLE setting... that will
|of course change the quality of the image, but it also drastically
|affects rendering times.  Are you doing scanline renders or raytraced?

    scanline.

|Also, I have heard that more RAM speeds up Imagine, but I'll defer to
|what Charles and Steve suggest on this one.

    That would be difficult.  I am maxed out already.  The only other
    solution is a faster board with more memory.  Or the DKB extended
    memory option.  Still, even getting this setup will require more
    time than I have for THIS project.

    Thanks for the response tho.

    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #127 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Rendering time woes
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 14:15:29 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|  Dale, are you ray-tracing this project?  I suppose your tube object, for
|  example, will be casting shadows?  Is it reflective?  Can you live
|  without some of the perks of ray-traced imagery?  I find that Scanline
|  tricks can be quite effective.  (I'd wager NECESSARY for the business
|  professional who uses only Imagine for 3-D work).

    It's definately scanline.  I'm considering redesigning the
    animation  to cut down on my rendering times.  All your
    suggestions and ones from others are giving me lots of ideas.
    There are ways I can still get the effects I'm looking for without
    all the overhead.  I wanted an animated texture.  But I think I'll
    sacrifice it just to get the animation out the door.  Dang!  Here
    come those "trade offs" knocking at my door again!  :o

    Thanks,

    Dale




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #128 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Rendering time woes
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 15:14:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Dale, are you ray-tracing this project?  I suppose your tube object, for
  example, will be casting shadows?  Is it reflective?  Can you live
  without some of the perks of ray-traced imagery?  I find that Scanline
  tricks can be quite effective.  (I'd wager NECESSARY for the business
  professional who uses only Imagine for 3-D work).
    FOr one, you could cheat shadows of things as long as they move
  parallel to the surface which will receive the shadow and aly are not
  rotating along the path.  Using a shadow 'object' which follows its own
  path could be an option.  GLobal reflections can be used and are visible
  in scanline on any reflective surface.  (the sky gradients also reflect
  from surfaces in scanline mode).  ANother thought:   Is there any portion
  of the scene which does not move over a number of frames?  If so, render
  it by itself, use the rendered iamge as a backdrop against which to
  render the 'moving' parts.  Advantage:  No rendering of redundant parts.
  Disadvantage:  No interaction between background and foreground; no
  shadows.  Advantage:  rendering times in hours/days and not weeks.
  BabbleOn:
  wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #129 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Rendering time woes.
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 11:27:12 PST
From: "Charles Congdon" <[e-mail]>

Dale:

>    this simple scene took me 31 minutes to render.  I have a 2500/30,
>    25 MHZ, 4 meg RAM.  I am working on a project that has to be
>    finished in a week.  I estimate the animation to be around 960
>    frames.  At this speed it will take me 20 days to render the
>    animation.  I don't have this luxury.  Should I be getting better
>    rendering times than this?  If so, can someone offer some
>    suggestions for speeding things up?

    Well, since procedural textures will always result in slower rendering
times than bitmaps (but they do save memory), how about using a bitmap of the
textures you want, rather than the textures themselves?  This will cut down on
the rendering times for each frame.  Could be a problem, though, if your 4 Meg
of memory can't hold this all...
     Render a scene in which you have only a textured ground plane
uniformly lit with the camera looking in -Z, setting antialiasing as high as
possible (EDLE as small as possible).
    Now apply this bitmap to the plane in your scene, and render if you
have the memory.  Will definitely run faster than running the textures each
frame.

    Other possible speedups:

-  Is there anything shiny in the scene?  Does it reflect anything that is
   moving?  If not, you can use a very low-detail, very faint color map of the
   scene from the object's perspective and set the object's reflection to zero.

-  Do the lights move in the scene or do shadow-casting objects move?  If not,
   use a color map to simulate the shadows.  Doesn't need to be too deep
   (bitplane-wise).

-  If you can play the above tricks (no real shadows, no reflection), you might
   be able to get away with rendering in scanline mode.  Might be faster,
   might use more memory.  Ask youself:  Do you *really* need shadows.  Take a
   look at all the commercials, Babylon 5, etc that get away without them.
   Just how realistic does the scene *need* to be?

-  Since it sounds like you are doing an animation, maybe you can lower the
   anti-aliasing value some (raise EDLE) - motion will improve the apparent
   "quality" of any moving object.

-  Do you have a static background?  If the objects don't interact with it, you
   can render the scene without the foreground objects, and use the resulting
   image as a backdrop (maybe composited later) for your animation.  This will
   not do, unfortunately, if the camera moves.

-  BLOBC has a setting for the number of fractal levels, the basic size scale,
   and how the size scale changes with each level (size ratio).  Do a little
   math.  If the resulting scale of the smallest level is smaller than a pixel
   in your scene, you have the noise levels turned up too high - you are
   wasting CPU cycles.  Turn it down until the smallest size scale is about the
   size of a pixel.

   ex:  You set the BLOBC basic size scale to 100 Imagine units.  You are using
   5 levels with each scale level being 0.4 times the size of the one above it.
   The smallest size scale is then:  100 * 0.4 * 0.4 * 0.4 * 0.4 * 0.4 = 1.02
   Imagine units.  If 1.02 Imagine units is smaller than most of the pixels
   containing the plane, drop to 4 levels.

-  Does the amplitude of the color changes between the BLOBC color and the base
   object color require this many scale levels?  Remember that color is an
   integer - if the color variation is a number about 1 or less than 1, you
   really aren't going to be able to see it (this is a 24-bit color I am
   talking about there).  So the smallest scale(s) is wasted.  Likewise, if the
   object color is "washed out" by your lighting, you may also be able to lower
   the number of levels since that will compress the color variations as well.

   ex:  You really do need 5 scales?  Say the amplitude ratio is 0.4 as well.
   This means the color variations of the smallest scale will be 0.0102 times
   as strong as those of the highest level.  Will this result in a color
   variation too fine to see?  If so, drop the scale level.  Take the
   difference of the R, G, and B components for the plane and the texture.  Can
   either R, G, or B vary more than 100 units?  If so, great, 5 levels might be
   what you want.  How about only 50 units?  Then you could get away with
   4 levels, since the smallest color variation would be 1 unit.  What is one
   color component varies a lot, and the others only a little?  Aim to make the
   one the varies the most look right - the others will look fine by
   definition.

-  Conversely, if the largest scale of the BLOBC texture is larger than the
   camera's view of the scene, lower the scale level to about 2/3rds of the
   camera's field of view and decrease the number of scale levels until you get
   something that looks OK.

-  And if the camera moves, make a lot of clone objects and apply the same
   texture, but with more or less levels as dictated by the guidelines above.

-  Don't use animated BLOBC noise. (time, time scale to zero)

    The basic idea here is to render anything that is static only once, and
to cast as few rays as possible.  With BLOBC, it is not to render information
you cannot see in the resulting output.

    Should you be getting better rendering times than this?  Depends a lot
on your Imagine preferences, what else you are doing on your Amiga (turn off
your screen blankers!) and how your 960-frame scene will evolve.

    Hopefully, something above will be of use.

    Cheers,
    Charles
                            Standard disclaimer re:  Oracle Corporation


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #130 ***************************************:-)

Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 15:33:05 CST
From: [e-mail] (cyrus)

Reply to: [e-mail]
Subject: Displacement maps
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 15:33:14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Imagine 2.9 has Applique, which is essentially bump or displacement
maping...



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #131 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Nebula Effect?
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 13:43:08 PST
From: "Charles Congdon" <[e-mail]>

Stethem Ted writes:

>   Anybody have any success, suggestions, tips or ideas about how to make a
>nebula object for Imagine?  If you have seen Babylon5, there are always
>wispy gaseous nebulas in the stellar background.  While this is
>scientifically inaccurate, it is a neat effect.  It is fairly easy to do
>with Lightwave but I am not having much success in trying to accomplish this
>in Imagine.

    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the Babylon5
nebula is a very detailed painting that has been applied as a brushmap to a
section of the "sphere" that defines the universe around Babylon5.  Notice that
you never fly through it, see it up close, etc - it's always in the background.
Other distant nebulae are probably also paintings.  Not to say that Lightwave
can't do true 3D nebulae, or trick you into thinking it is rendering them...
    Hence, this should be just as easy to do in Imagine :)

    Interesting *true* volumetric "textures" might be possible in Imagine
3.0, depending what the texture spec says.  Already possible in Aladdin, Real
3D, and high-end non-Amiga renderers.  Volumetric textures are terribly
expensive to render in great detail (march along the ray, sampling, computing
as you go, rather than only at the hit point as in the textures you now know
and love), so non-rigorous tricks are generally the way to go.

    Cheers,
    Charles             Standard disclaimer.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #132 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Rendering time woes
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 12:27:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

Dale,
   You are finding out the price for trying to do more.  Every light you add
and every texture is going to cost you more rendering time.  The rendering
time you give is typical for a 25 MHz '030.  FYI, a 25 MHz '040 is almost 5
times faster than the '030.
   The only thing you can do is try some of the suggestions that have been
previously posted to the list.  Some of them have been:

1.  Check EDLE. If your render doesn't have to be super high-quality, you
can set EDLE in preferences to a higher number (more jaggies but less render
time).  Also, smaller screen sizes render faster.  The quarter size test
screens render incredibly fast but image will not fill the whole screen.
 Really large custom size screens, like 1024x800, take a lot longer but they
do look really nice.
2.  Reduce number of reflections, 3 is usually enough.
3.  Try the 2 or 4 color workbench brought forward rather than the 16 color
Imagine render screen.
4.  Use large world sizes in stage editor with everything scaled up. Steve
Worley recommends this in Understanding Imagine.  I have found 15000 Imagine
units to be an optimal size.
5.  You don't say if you are in Trace or Scanline. Considering your scene,
it doesn't seem to require Trace unless nice shadows are important.  Trace
takes longer. I haven't tested this completely but I think Imagine V2.9 is
rendering in Trace mode faster than V2.0. It also has the palette choice
which will decrease your render times.
6.  Render RGB-24, doesn't require extra time for palette passes.  If you
have a good batch processor for ADPRO or ImageFX, then render single frames
and assemble the animation afterwards rather than letting Imagine do it.
Also, don't use Imagine dither, use image processor dither, if needed.
7.  Algorithmic textures are nice but they really take up a lot of CPU time.
 If you can get by with brushmaps, it is much faster.  If you are trying to
do that paper-texture thing, it will be a lot better for you to get a 24-bit
scan of a sheet of paper, and use it as a brushmap.  If you have some image
processing, you can take that scan and turn it into greyscale and use that
as an altitude brushmap which will give your plane the appearance of bumps
and ridges, like a real sheet of paper.  This only works in Imagine V2.0 as
V2.9 has a bug with multiple brushmaps (major bummer for me!).

Most of these tips have come from other people on the IML and I want to
thank everybody for their help.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: Rendering time woes
Date: Wednesday, March 09, 1994 12:00AM


        Hi,

        I was rendering a simple scene last night.  One plane with two
        Essence textures (blobc, and gridmesh).  I also have another
        simple object consisting of 3 tube primitives (no textures).  I
        have 3 light sources set up in a triangular configuration.




                            Top view

                                  -----------------------------
                                  |                plane      |
                                  |                           |
                                  |                           |
                                  |                           |
                                  |                           |
                                  |     o        o light      |
                                  |        |                  |
                                  |        | 0 camera         |
                                  |     ___|_________         |
                                  |          tube object      |
                                  |                           |
                                  |      o                    |
                                  |                           |
                                  |                           |
                                  -----------------------------



                      Front (elevation) View


                                                o o       o lights


                                                         0 camera



                         _____________  tube object

                   -----------------------------  plane




        this simple scene took me 31 minutes to render.  I have a 2500/30,
        25 MHZ, 4 meg RAM.  I am working on a project that has to be
        finished in a week.  I estimate the animation to be around 960
        frames.  At this speed it will take me 20 days to render the
        animation.  I don't have this luxury.  Should I be getting better
        rendering times than this?  If so, can someone offer some
        suggestions for speeding things up?


        Thanks,

        Dale



        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #133 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: I just can't Imagine (how to...)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 18:16:18 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>

Does Imagine do clipping maps?  If so, draw windows in Dpaint and use
the map to cut the windows out.  (I apologize if this is totally off
base.  I've got Imagine, but I don't have a manual, haven't ordered
Understanding.. yet, and have been too busy to play around with it much.
But if I understand clipping maps correctly, that's what they do.  Could
a guru clear this up for me?)

Earl Corbin
[e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #134 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 15:32:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

    I take it you are talking about taking a 2-dimensional IFF and creating
a 3D-plane object from it?  There are actually several programs that will do
this to some degree.  Have you looked at Scapemaker?  This will take a 2-d
IFF and turn it into a VistaPro landscape.  From VistaPro, you could export
it as a TurboSilver object which is directly readable to Imagine.
 Scapemaker has an example of taking a Mandelbrot 2D IFF and turning it into
a 3D landscape.  There are a couple of public domain programs that will also
do this.
    The main difficulty with these programs that it will elevate different
colors to different heights.  Generally, it is best to have a grayscale
image, then the programs will usually interpret black as the lowest level
and white as the highest level.  I have been playing with this, trying to
take peoples faces and turning them into landscape objects but most
photographic images are not gradiated correctly to work exactly the way I
want it to.  For example, the tip of the nose usually has a white highlight
but the cheeks also have a white highlight so the cheeks end up being
elevated as high as the tip of the nose. And the whites of the eyeballs are
elevated just as high while the pupil will not be as high and the iris is at
the lowest level.  So, I have been having mixed results using unprocessed
images.  I need to go in and touch up the images so that there is a
greyscale gradiation from black to white, like a contour map.
     The program I am using is Vertex 2.0 which has an IFF map feature (plus
quite a few other really neat things!).  I don't recall the names of the PD
programs right now, but if you are interested, I could look them up.  I
tried using them awhile back but never got past the learning curve on them
and Vertex 2.0 is much easier and more fun to play with.
    As for POV conversion, that came up a few days ago. Somebody suggested
using  POV2RAW and then RAW2DXF.  I can find RAW2DXF but I have looked high
and low for POV2RAW.  Can anybody help me find this program?
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: IML
Subject: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Wednesday, March 09, 1994 11:09AM

Yep.  Imagine doesn't seem to be able to do displacement maps.  I'm not
talking about Imagine's altitude maps - they are a light trick.  I'm
trying to figure out a way to create/import the real thing....actual
objects (planes) whose point's/edge's/face's z vector is offset thru
some 2d map.  POV does this with its height_field feature.  (BTW, funny
thing about the nomenclature:  POV's height_field is what Steve Worley
calls displacement map; POV's bump_map is Imagine's altitude map.  Height,
displacement, bump, altitude.........let's call the whole thing off!)

Anyway, is anyone aware of some method of generating displacement maps
for Imagine, perhaps through TDDD?  Can POV object scripting SOMEHOW be
translated to Imagine object format?  Any comments on this are welcome.

Michael

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 +    M.D. Whitten   [e-mail]    Sentience is overrated.   +
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #135 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Graphics driver in 256 color mode.
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 19:56:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenn R. Wilson" <[e-mail]>

I have been using Imagine to render my images, and I admit I am
rather green at it.  I recently tried to view my images in Window's
lview.  By doing this, I found out that there is no 256 color driver for
it that will work with my monitor. It is a tnseng graphics card.  If it's
misspelled, I apologize.  I would like to find a driver for this card
that supports 256 colors period.  If you know of one that is for
1024x800, that is even better.  I can't view anything as it is now
because it is so distorted.  All help appreciated.

Is it possible that I am doing something wrong in the setup during the
render?

Glenn Wilson
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #136 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Imagine Render Images
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 00:08:39 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

as Graeme Mc Donough said,
<
<Hi all
<
<Has anybody out there had problems with different size images generated from
<a run?
<I have Generated a small run of about 30 frames, all 12bit ham ILBM's
<I tried importing them into ImageFX and DpaintIV and they both rejected the
<images because they were different sizes to generate the animation.
<I could however generate the animation in Imagine.
<Is this a known BUG??

This is typical..

I have a friend who is teaching a Imagine class at UNM-LA (Los Alamos Branch,
where [ Los Alamos] ray-tracing [on computers] pratically began, if Impulse
had any sense would listen). He's got 4 Amiga 600's and Imagine 2.0 (latest
revision, not 2.9 though) and he can't get it to make animations
that are compatible with DpaintIV AGA, so he's been forced to revert back to
DPaint III for animations.. I'd ask Impulse to help him out, but I know they
aren't looking to impress thousands of scientists interested in visualization
(one of the primary uses for CG) and personal interests in making animations.
At least Impulse could add support for AGA animations (unless EA has made it
proprietary )and release a free patch to all Imagine users, as well as my
friend which is more enthusiastic about Imagine than I am about Impulse.

Kiernan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #137 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Making Trees...
Date:     Wed, 9 Mar 1994 23:52:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greets Imagineers!

What programs exist for making trees and shrubs?  (not too broad a
question, eh? :)  Also, has anyone tried those 'Snap Maps' with Imagine
yet?  Are they any good??

David (Desperately Waiting for Imagine 3.0) Wyand
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #138 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Inversed kinematics in Img 3.0 ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 12:34:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Kees Pronk <[e-mail]>

Greets people,


Does anyone know if a inversed kinematics option is (or going to be)
implemented in Imagine 3.0 ??!!

Any info concerning this and any other major new features in 3.0 will
really be appreciated!


Kees. ([e-mail])


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #139 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Rendering time woes
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 8:42:05 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|   You are finding out the price for trying to do more.  Every light you add
|and every texture is going to cost you more rendering time.  The rendering
|time you give is typical for a 25 MHz '030.  FYI, a 25 MHz '040 is almost 5
|times faster than the '030.

    When I start making even a little money with this stuff, it's on
    my list of things to get.  Thanks.

|2.  Reduce number of reflections, 3 is usually enough.

    Good idea.

|3.  Try the 2 or 4 color workbench brought forward rather than the 16 color
|Imagine render screen.

    Done.

|4.  Use large world sizes in stage editor with everything scaled up. Steve
|Worley recommends this in Understanding Imagine.  I have found 15000 Imagine
|units to be an optimal size.

    Hmmmm.  I'll try this.

|7.  Algorithmic textures are nice but they really take up a lot of CPU time.
| If you can get by with brushmaps, it is much faster.  If you are trying to
|do that paper-texture thing, it will be a lot better for you to get a 24-bit
|scan of a sheet of paper, and use it as a brushmap.  If you have some image
|processing, you can take that scan and turn it into greyscale and use that
|as an altitude brushmap which will give your plane the appearance of bumps
|and ridges, like a real sheet of paper.  This only works in Imagine V2.0 as
|V2.9 has a bug with multiple brushmaps (major bummer for me!).

    Any body know where I can get good 24bit brushmaps of paper
    textures?  This is a good idea and one I would entertain.


|Most of these tips have come from other people on the IML and I want to
|thank everybody for their help.

    Me too.  Thanks for all the help.  There are far too many to
    thanks everyone indiviually.

    Dale


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #140 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Nebula Effect?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 10:55:12 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>     Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the Babylon5
> nebula is a very detailed painting

That is correct. I believe they were done on a Mac and transfered to the Amiga
for use with LightWave.

>     Interesting *true* volumetric "textures" might be possible in Imagine
> 3.0, depending what the texture spec says.

Imagine's and most all other procedural textures are already *true* volumetric
"textures". However, the renderer only works with surfaces so only the surface
of those textures can ever be seen. You would need a new renderer capable of
doing volumes rather than surfaces. Changing the texture spec will not help.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #141 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 11:05:39 EST
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>

> Imagine 2.9 has Applique, which is essentially bump or displacement
> maping...

Bump mapping != Displacement mapping

Bump mapping is a rendering effect where the surface normal at each pixel is
offset when doing phong shading.  This normal can be perturbed by a function
(such as fractal noise), by a bitmap (such as an 8bit greyscale altitude map),
or even other methods.
Bump maps are great for adding an apparent texture to objects.


Displacement mapping is done before rendering and the actual data describing
an object is chaged. i.e. the vertices are displaced by a function (such
as fractal noise), by a bitmap (such as an 8bit greyscale map), or even other
methods.
Displacement maps are great for doing animation effects, such as Mark Thompson's

blowing grass effect which used Lightwave's two point particles (lines/edges)
displaced by a function (fractal noise I believe).

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #142 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Imagine Render Images
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 08:26:22 -0800
From: Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>

I use Rend24 in the background to convert my 24bit or Ham to Ham8 animations.
It works great. If ram is a problem you can create all the files and
then convert.

I know that this is not an Imagine fix, but it works under the phylosophy
of work with whatcha got.

Tim [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #143 ***************************************:-)

Subject:  Bones anim
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 10:58:15 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]

Greetings,

I've uploaded the "bones" demo to aminet - don't know how long it will be
before you can get it.

It is in FLC format (zipped up) and the file is bigger than a floppy - I'm
sorry if this inconveniances (sp) anyone too much.  If anybody else wants to
change the format and stuff, feel free.

The anim shows off bones, constraints, states, and lens flare.  The
magic.readme file explains a little about how the anim was done.

later...            sk....

PS.  The file's called: magic.zip


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #144 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 14:50:56 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Cedric Georges Chang)

On Mar 10, 11:05am, David Watters wrote:
> Subject: Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
> > Imagine 2.9 has Applique, which is essentially bump or displacement
> > maping...
>
> Bump mapping != Displacement mapping

Imagine 2.9 can do bump mapping the same way v2.0 does it in the brush
requester AND can do displacement maps through Applique.  Both methods use a
greyscale bitmap to define the displacements.

Cedric

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cedric Chang                Mechanical Engineer               // Commodore
[e-mail]       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute      \X/  Amiga 3000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #145 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Rendering time woes
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 13:04:40 MST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)

|4.  Use large world sizes in stage editor with everything scaled up. Steve
|Worley recommends this in Understanding Imagine.  I have found 15000 Imagine
|units to be an optimal size.

Does anyone know if this is better or worse than setting the world
size to 0?

Brian

********************************************************************
* Brian Ridout (Phillips Laboratory) (voice) 505-846-4349          *
* PL/WSAS                              (DSN) 246-4349              *
* 3550 Aberdeen Ave SE                 (FAX) 505-846-4374          *
* Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776       (E-mail) [e-mail]     *
********************************************************************


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #146 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Splitting large files
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 12:09:24 -0800
From: Christopher Ivan Morris <[e-mail]>

Howdy out there,
    Could anyone out there describe an effective way to split up
large lha files so as to be put on 720K disks.  I can get the archive
into my unix account, and via ftp into a local DOS machine, so a
utility to split the archive on either of these mchines would be good.
Of course something is also needed on the amiga to recombine the file.
Many thanks in advance for replies to this.

Chris Morris


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #147 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 14:07:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>

On Thu, 10 Mar 1994, David Watters wrote:

> > Imagine 2.9 has Applique, which is essentially bump or displacement
> > maping...
>
> Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
>
> Bump mapping is a rendering effect where the surface normal at each pixel is
> offset when doing phong shading.  This normal can be perturbed by a function
> (such as fractal noise), by a bitmap (such as an 8bit greyscale altitude map),

> or even other methods.
> Bump maps are great for adding an apparent texture to objects.

    OOPS!  I screwed up on that one.  What I meant was that Aplique
physically (well virtually physically) deforms the object in a similar way
to Lightwaves displacement mapping.




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #148 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Rendering time woes
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 15:29:21 EST
From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)

> |do that paper-texture thing, it will be a lot better for you to get a 24-bit

> |scan of a sheet of paper, and use it as a brushmap.  If you have some image
> |processing, you can take that scan and turn it into greyscale and use that
> |as an altitude brushmap which will give your plane the appearance of bumps
> |and ridges, like a real sheet of paper.  This only works in Imagine V2.0 as
> |V2.9 has a bug with multiple brushmaps (major bummer for me!).
>
>     Any body know where I can get good 24bit brushmaps of paper
>     textures?  This is a good idea and one I would entertain.
>

If there is a SamFlax[ArtStore] in your area, there SamFlax in Chicago,
Atlanta, Los Angeles and somewhere else, they have 24bit scanned images
consisting of anything from exotic papers, crumple paper, nuts&bolts, just
plenty of background high quality images on cdrom, and can be printed out
onto laser color paper, transparency or cd, anyways, they would certainly
have what you want, the distributor of this images is by:

Sam Flax 1460 Northside Dr., N.W. Atlanta, GA 30318 [phone]

What you want to inquire about is: Letraset PhotoTone Digital
Selector; Natural,
Food, Industrial, Paper/Textiles/Miscellaneous Creative Backgrounds

Call 1-800-524-0785 for the nearest LetraSet dealer near you.

This is what you want!




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #149 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Making Trees...
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 12:41:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  If you want a good program for making trees (plus having a lot of other
nice features), get Vertex 2.0.  It has a special menu just for that, and
besides that, allows you to make and use your own leaves.  The default
settings that come with it aren't that great but you can really tweak out
some really cool trees.  The demo version is up on wuarchive but in the
amiga-boing area, I think.  There is also a Public Domain program that
produces brush-like trees in Sculpt format, can't remember the name of it
right now, something like Tree3D.  Not real detailed but pretty good if you
need a bunch of bushes in your scene.  Also, it is pretty easy to make
pretty good trees with Imagine V2.9's new features, especially taper, twist,
and bend.  Just take a tube primitive (many sections), stretch it, taper it,
twist it, and bend it to get the trunk.  Take smaller tube primitives, do
the same thing and join them to the trunk for branches.  Hard part is adding
leaves although you can probably take some shortcuts without having to
attach individual leaf objects to the branches.
  As for Snap-Maps, they are totally KOOL!  And it is nothing really
sophisticated, either.  Snap-Maps are just altitude, color, and clip(filter)
brushmaps.  You could make your own if you want.  Get a high-res image of a
leaf and use that for the brush-map.  Convert it to grayscale in some image
processor and that is your altitude map.  Take that and make the surrounding
area black, and turn the interior area totally white and that is your clip
map (filter). Apply these to different objects, works best on curved planes
for leaves.  The ferns are totally awesome!  The only problem is that this
doesn't work with Imagine 2.9 because of the multiple brush-map bug ( please
have this fixed in V3.0!!!).
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: Making Trees...
Date: Wednesday, March 09, 1994 11:52PM

Greets Imagineers!

What programs exist for making trees and shrubs?  (not too broad a
question, eh? :)  Also, has anyone tried those 'Snap Maps' with Imagine
yet?  Are they any good??

David (Desperately Waiting for Imagine 3.0) Wyand
[e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #150 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Imagine Render Images
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 12:20:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

   I don't understand this series of messages.  By different sizes, do you
mean different resolution sizes?  I don't know of any program that will
digest different resolution sizes without hiccuping except for ScalaMM300
(very awesome program BTW).  Besides, you should forget about using 12-bit
HAM ILBM.  The best thing to do with Imagine is render single frames in
high-resolution (Imagine default 704x440) RGB-24, then use a batch processor
like ProControl for ADPRO to assemble the animation.  I still haven't gotten
my 24-bit graphics card (soon, as soon as I can figure out which one does
what with whatever) so this is what I do to make HAM Interlace animations.
 It is no sweat to make AGA (HAM-8 or whatever) also.  I store the
individual frames to the 150 Meg Bernoulli (great little cartridge HD BTW)
and then assemble them to the 100 Meg I have left on my 213 Meg HD.  High
resolution RGB-24 frames usually range from 300K to 1.5Meg, depending  on
the complexity of the image, so I can usually get over 100 frames on the
Bernoulli HD.  Depending on the animation format (Opt-Code 5, 7, 8, 8-long,
etc), I will end up with a 20+ Megabyte animation.  Also, take a tip from
the video professionals; split your animation up into different scenes.
 When was the last time you saw a movie or TV show that consisted of one
long scene?  Actually, there have been some studies done that showed most TV
shows have scenes lasting 10 seconds or less ( could this account for the
short attention span epidemic?).  Also, ADPRO produces a much more
compatible HAM screen than Imagine or even DPaint.  Don't know what the
reason is but both Imagine and DPaint have some slight bug in their HAM
format routines.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: gmcdonou
Cc: imagine
Subject: Re: Imagine Render Images
Date: Thursday, March 10, 1994 12:08AM

as Graeme Mc Donough said,
<
<Hi all
<
<Has anybody out there had problems with different size images generated
from
<a run?
<I have Generated a small run of about 30 frames, all 12bit ham ILBM's
<I tried importing them into ImageFX and DpaintIV and they both rejected the
<images because they were different sizes to generate the animation.
<I could however generate the animation in Imagine.
<Is this a known BUG??

This is typical..

I have a friend who is teaching a Imagine class at UNM-LA (Los Alamos
Branch,
where [ Los Alamos] ray-tracing [on computers] pratically began, if Impulse
had any sense would listen). He's got 4 Amiga 600's and Imagine 2.0 (latest
revision, not 2.9 though) and he can't get it to make animations
that are compatible with DpaintIV AGA, so he's been forced to revert back to
DPaint III for animations.. I'd ask Impulse to help him out, but I know they

aren't looking to impress thousands of scientists interested in
visualization
(one of the primary uses for CG) and personal interests in making
animations.
At least Impulse could add support for AGA animations (unless EA has made it

proprietary )and release a free patch to all Imagine users, as well as my
friend which is more enthusiastic about Imagine than I am about Impulse.

Kiernan


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #151 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Making Trees...
Date:     Thu, 10 Mar 1994 15:02:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

->I have vertex and last night made about 15 trees in about an hour(plus
->about 20 I didn't like) there is a demo on the net. If you need a site
->let me know.

I have used Vertex a little, but could never get the trees right, or
never liked them (too computer like if I remember right).  Maybe I
should take another look at it...

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #152 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bump mapping != Displacement mapping
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 17:52:14 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

David R. Watters writes:
> Displacement maps are great for doing animation fx, such as Mark Thompson's
> blowing grass effect which used Lightwave's two point particles (lines)
> displaced by a function (fractal noise I believe).

Actually, it was large procedural ripples. And yes, animation effects are
probably displacement mapping greatest strength.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #153 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Splitting large files
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:54:06 +0100 (MET)
From: gp178 <[e-mail]>

>
> Howdy out there,
>     Could anyone out there describe an effective way to split up
> large lha files so as to be put on 720K disks.  I can get the archive
> into my unix account, and via ftp into a local DOS machine, so a
> utility to split the archive on either of these mchines would be good.
> Of course something is also needed on the amiga to recombine the file.
> Many thanks in advance for replies to this.
>
> Chris Morris
>

Try to use lha itself. On amiga lha version 1.50, type lha -V720 ...
I tried to get the file back on McIntosh, but I didn't manage. Does lha
Mac uses multi-volume ???

    Stanis
    [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #154 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bones anim
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 16:30:39 CST
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Wilkinson)

[snip]
> It is in FLC format (zipped up) and the file is bigger than a floppy - I'm
> sorry if this inconveniances (sp) anyone too much.  If anybody else wants to
> change the format and stuff, feel free.
[snip]
> PS.  The file's called: magic.zip
>
Could somebody here format that file to be an ANIM file and change it
to an lha/lzh file?? I can't play FLC files and infozip sux :)

Stephen

____________________________________
Stephen Wilkinson     [e-mail]      "Programming is like pinball. The
Software Engineer                         reward for doing it well is the
LB&M Associates                           opportunity to do it again."
____________________________________
#define OPINION         myown
#define COMPANYOPINION ~myown

      This message created using 87% recycled neuro-transmitters


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #155 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Nebula Effect?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 19:27:02 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>

Charles Congdon wrote:

>     Interesting *true* volumetric "textures" might be possible in Imagine
> 3.0, depending what the texture spec says.  Already possible in Aladdin, Real
> 3D, and high-end non-Amiga renderers.  Volumetric textures are terribly
> expensive to render in great detail (march along the ray, sampling, computing
> as you go, rather than only at the hit point as in the textures you now know
> and love), so non-rigorous tricks are generally the way to go.

Maybe but this would require quite a fundamental change. To see why, just
add a primitive sphere and delete one or more triangles. You end up
with a hollow spherical shell with a hole in it :) Although the facets
completely surround a volume they do not make it solid. Real 3D and even
POV use Constructive Solid Geometry (CSG) to achieve their solids. You
are absolutely correct about render times. I have rendered a POV image
which took 40 hours on a 28MHz 040! This was not even a very complex scene.

I reckon but can't be sure (Scott ??) that volumetric textures will not
be possible. If the Imagine textures work like the old Turbo Silver ones
then all the texture algorithm gets fed are things like position,normal,
colour,reflectivity and transparency plus some flags which it can adjust
and return. The renderer would therefore have to call the texture for
points that do not lie in the plane of any surface, wherin lies the
fundamental change requirement.

Andrew


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #156 ***************************************:-)

Subject: DXF
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 03:23:17 EST
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)

Just a little question for someone! Is the DXF import in Imagine actual=
ly
working. I was bringing in an object (DXF) that I needed to render and
when I rendered it even after setting the Attributes the object came ou=
t
tottally black. Now I had no time to full around with this for a few ho=
urs
so I just used Interchange_Plus to convert. It would be easier to do it
within Imagine but no time to full around with it.. when I could be
rendering!

Anyone know what is going on?
=20


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #157 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 color problem
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 03:19:24 EST
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)

Hi Kent (Kent Kalnasy), in <[e-mail]> on Mar
 4 you wrote:

: At  2:34 PM 3/4/94 -0400, MCADOO wrote:
: I'm sure the other commercial image manupulation programs, like ADPro and
: Image F/X, will also give you a better conversion than what you see inside
: of Imagine, but I can vouch for ImageMaster's superb dithering and palette
: selection for presentation of 24-bit images on a 16-color display.

    Well ADPro has a program called Sentry that will watch for frames
in certain directory. It is designed for AUTOJPEG of frames but just as
easily it can be used to display frames in ADPro although runing a big
program in the background is a pain in my opinion since even when not
working with it directly it uses cycles.

    What I do is just drop the frames in to a viewer. I use
DirectoryOpus with Viewtek to display the pictures when rendered manually
and they usually look very good. I assume that some person can actually
come up with an arexx script to automate this... I just personally dislike
Arexx :-)


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #158 ***************************************:-)

Subject: displacement mapping
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 01:32:00 BST
From: [e-mail]

Imagine 2.9 has an "Applique" function in the Detail editor, and it does
displacement mapping accurate to an 8bit grayscale. The depth is determined
by the size (in units) of the image's y axis. In my experiments, I've found
it to be very accurate and useful, as long as you have enough ram and the
object has enough triangles. Try a plane with 20x20 sections, instead of the
default 10x10. Try a grayscale pic made with Cinemorph or MorphPlus for some
really strange surfaces.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #159 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Moon iff (again)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 08:30:18 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)

Well, Thanks to all the notes I got regarding the quest for a MOON
unfortunatly, I got deleted from the imagine list right after my post
so If you replied to the list instead of to me I never saw it 8-(

I looked on WUarchive and didn't find one picture of the moon,
I tried the Phoon program but it just has a 2 bit iff.

Sooo,  If anyone knows where a good (even 16 color) picture of the moon
is I would sure appreciate it!
If you have the time a little tutorial on how to use ARCHIE would be great.
Thanks
Adam B



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #160 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine Render engine
Date: 11 Mar 94 09:41:54 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)

Just got a good idea, (i think)

How about if Impulse made a little program "a Render engine" that
didn't take up as muck ram as Imagine 2.9 does, with a interface like
lets say Rend24 og something..

It would help me alot, how do any of you think about it. ?
It should just work like the Project editor in Imagine, but instead it
is a external program you can choose if your project is a little to
big for your ram amount ?

Welll the Project editor shpuld still be included in Imagine, the
renderengine should just be a small utility..

        SObren Wind - IZI/ImPACT       __     _____        _______
 /\\   GFX / 3D Design / Raytrace    (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / /\\
 \\/ Fidonet Scala  2:230/418.30     /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \\/
     Fidonet ATeam  2:230/714.17    /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\
      Amiganet : 39:141/104.30         /     \      |__\_____\
     Internet : [e-mail]     /_______\
   A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33MHz+SVGA

 <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= So GooD, So Far, So WHAT ? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->

... Nuclear clock stands at five mins to midnite


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #161 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Realistic lighting
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:48:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Kees Pronk <[e-mail]>

Hello Imagine scene,


I have a hard time establishing true lighting shadow effects with
Imagine....   (So?? you think...   help --->)


By that I mean "true shadows", with soft sides blending into the scene.
Maybe what I am trying to achieve takes advanced rendering techniques
such as radiosity, but I'm convinced it should be possible to simulate
with imagine.

I feel the way to go is to use multiple lightsources with diminish
intensity enabled.

Any info concerning realistic shadow rendering techniques (or work
arounds) are really appreciated!!

Kees.

"Ready to beam up two..."




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #162 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Letter box style
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 9:47:15 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Someone posted a message here a while back about producing
    animations in a letter box style.  How is that done and what is
    the render size for output to video?

    Would you first create the animation in the rendered size and then
    composite it to be centered using ADPro?  Is that how you get the
    image centered on the black screen?

    Thanks in advance,

    Dale

    PS  I'm looking for alternative to cut down the rendering times.
    BTW I tried using the brushmap idea instead of the animated
    textures.  Your right, my render time was significantly reduced.

    If I want to put my animation over a static background, is it
    better to render the frames with the background in Imagine?  Or is
    it faster to produce the frames in Imagine, and do some compositing
    using ADPro?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #163 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  DXF
Date:     Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:37:32 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>Is the DXF import in Imagine actually working. I was bringing in an object
>(DXF) that I needed to render and  when I rendered it even after setting
>the Attributes the object came out tottally black.

I've used the DXF loader with better than average success.  I've only
had one or two that wouldn't load so far.

I think you problem with the attributes though may be that you've selected
the genlock option.  This renders the object completely to colour zero.

Jason K.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #164 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Imagine Render engine
Date:     Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:43:31 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>How about if Impulse made a little program "a Render engine" that
>didn't take up as muck ram as Imagine 2.9 does, with a interface like
>lets say Rend24 og something..

Isn't this the way the modules used to set up?  They only loaded what
was needed for that particular module to run.

I was disappointed that Impulse is removing this feature from Imagine.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #165 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 color problem
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:08:00 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  3:19 AM 3/10/94 -0500, Yury German wrote:

>        Well ADPro has a program called Sentry that will watch for frames
>in certain directory. It is designed for AUTOJPEG of frames but just as
>easily it can be used to display frames in ADPro

Sounds nice.  I've been tempted to get ADPro, especially now that they've
rewritten the user interface.

>although runing a big
>program in the background is a pain in my opinion since even when not
>working with it directly it uses cycles.

Not if it is programmed correctly.  It uses ram, but any idling program
should not be using cycles.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #166 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:10:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  Tried Applique last night.  Yes, Imagine V2.9 does have displacement map
capability!  I still like the one in Vertex 2.0 better though for plane
objects.  It has better control and allows use of color IFF's.  Haven't
messed around with the Applique command with Wrap X Wrap Z and Wrap X Flat Z
( cylindrical and spherical objects) yet though.  It is a powerful new
feature for Imagine.
 ----------
From: Mike Halvorson
To: Stethem Ted              5721
Subject: RE: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Wednesday, March 09, 1994 10:13PM

ted,
ARE YOU AWARE OF THE APPLIQUE COMMAND IN IMAGINE 2.9.  iT DOES AS YOU WISH
WITH
A GRAY SCALE ON ANY OBJECT.

TRY IT

MIKE



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #167 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: DXF
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:03:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

   The .DXF import in Imagine V2.9 is working but it depends on how you
define the word "working".  The problem is not totally with the
loader/converter in Imagine but just in the nature of .DXF.  The .DXF loader
in Imagine works fine with release 9 and earlier .DXF 3D object files.   It
doesn't seem to like release 10 and later, though, except for 2D drawings.
 Contact Syndesis/Interchange_Plus for their very good booklet on the ins
and outs of .DXF.  As for the black, the .DXF loader/converter in Imagine
may or may not import color attributes (depends on how the .DXF was set up).
 If you can get the object to load, go into the attributes and click on the
color.  This will set it to white and you can get a better look at the
object in Quickrender.  It will still take a lot of work to reconstruct the
color attributes from there, though.  All of these object
importers/converters have their strengths and weaknesses.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: DXF
Date: Thursday, March 10, 1994 3:23AM

Just a little question for someone! Is the DXF import in Imagine actual=
ly
working. I was bringing in an object (DXF) that I needed to render and
when I rendered it even after setting the Attributes the object came ou=
t
tottally black. Now I had no time to full around with this for a few ho=
urs
so I just used Interchange_Plus to convert. It would be easier to do it
within Imagine but no time to full around with it.. when I could be
rendering!

Anyone know what is going on?
=20


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #168 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine Render Engine
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:39:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>

This is in response to Soren's post...

I too think that a stand-alone render engine would be an excellent addition
to Imagine. Think of this, too: If the render engine was freely distributable
or some other 'relaxed' distribution, you could do render farms and the like.

Also, what if it had ARexx control? I think it would be a great idea. I proposed


this to Impulse in one of my notes to them, but they didn't respond on that
one point.

Some sort of command line like:

RenderEngine PROJECTname STARTframe ENDframe

...should cover all the bases. Doesn't need to be much more than that, since
you've got Imagine to edit the staging file and the like.

Impulse? Whaddya think? Could it be done? Can it be done? How about it?



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #169 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Rendering farms
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 15:25:48 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Hello all,

    With the advent of rendering farms that are going to be springing
    up due to the screamer, it will be necessary to be able to produce
    better animations, faster.  This question may be flameable, but...
    is it possible to translate all the necessary files from Imagine
    to a Lightwave format to take advantage of the screamer's speed?
    I know a guy in town that is going to get a screamer and provide
    rendering services to local animators.  It would be nice to take
    advantage of this without going to Lightwave.  Am I dreaming?

    It sure would be nice to create the objects, attributes, and stage
    file in Imagine; render a few frames to make sure the colors and
    shadows are right;  get the movement working right; and then
    translate the file over to a Lightwave format and render in a few
    hours what may take days on my system.  Then I could get the
    frames back and move them to the PAR for dumping to tape.

    Is this feasible?  Or is Impulse planning on having a rendering
    engine that is screamer compatible so translation is not
    necessary?


    Dale

    My goodness I'm full of questions lately. :)


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #170 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Magic.Zip - bones anim...
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 16:04:50 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]

Greetings again all,

Sorry, but magic.zip didn't make it to aminet - I ain't got the
time to keep messin' with this crap.

sorry...                 sk...


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #171 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Letter box style
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 14:27:27 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)

You can do this really easily and it saves time rendering as you leave
    off about 60 lines.  Just set your render size to 736x380, and
    leave the ratio as it is.
steveZ
Why thank you, Walt.
               -Irene Dunne to Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #172 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Making Trees...
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 16:35:10 EST
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)

Hi David (David Wyand), in <[e-mail]> on Mar 9 you wrote
:

: What programs exist for making trees and shrubs?  (not too broad a
: question, eh? :)  Also, has anyone tried those 'Snap Maps' with Imagine
: yet?  Are they any good??
:

    Well the only program that I would actually recomend is Vertex 2.0
you can make trees from within it and they do look pretty good. I think
not as good as the sceneryAnimator but you can not export objects from
scenery animator so that is the best solution.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #173 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine Render engine
Date: 11 Mar 94 21:27:32 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)

 [ 11 Mar 94 ] [ Jason B Koszarsky -> me ]

 JBK> Isn't this the way the modules used to set up?  They only loaded what
 JBK> was needed for that particular module to run.

In V2.0 it did bit there must be a bug in V2.9 becurse i loost 500k
chip and 2Mb fast ram when i start it up.

Someone in the IML mentioned that in V2.9 you was not able to remove
the LOAD ALL MODULES feature, but i dont know...

 JBK> I was disappointed that Impulse is removing this feature from Imagine.

Are they ? or will it be back in V3.0

        SObren Wind - IZI/ImPACT       __     _____        _______
 /\\   GFX / 3D Design / Raytrace    (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / /\\
 \\/ Fidonet Scala  2:230/418.30     /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \\/
     Fidonet ATeam  2:230/714.17    /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\
      Amiganet : 39:141/104.30         /     \      |__\_____\
     Internet : [e-mail]     /_______\
   A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33MHz+SVGA

 <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= So GooD, So Far, So WHAT ? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->

... WindowError:015 Unable to exit windows.  Try the door.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #174 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: DXF
Date: 11 Mar 94 02:15:00 -0800
From: [e-mail]

Just a little question for someone! Is the DXF import in Imagine actual=
ly
working. I was bringing in an object (DXF) that I needed to render and
when I rendered it even after setting the Attributes the object came ou=
t
tottally black. Now I had no time to full around with this for a few ho=
urs
so I just used Interchange_Plus to convert. It would be easier to do it
within Imagine but no time to full around with it.. when I could be
rendering!

Anyone know what is going on?
=20

     I asked a similar DXF question not too long ago.  2.9 will only
     import autocad 3DFACE objects.  I have not had luck with any
     other type of autocad object.  If I am missing something, please
     let me know.  Don't know if this will be fixed in 3.0.

     Ed


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #175 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 2.9 color problem
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 01:53:57 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)

>
>Hi Kent (Kent Kalnasy), in <[e-mail]> on Ma
r 4 you wrote:
>
>    Well ADPro has a program called Sentry that will watch for frames
>in certain directory. It is designed for AUTOJPEG of frames but just as
>easily it can be used to display frames in ADPro although runing a big
>program in the background is a pain in my opinion since even when not
>working with it directly it uses cycles.
>

     I use Sentry to JPEG frames all the time and haven't noticed much of
a slowdown. It's sure nice to come home to find all the frames JPEG'd in
one directory and a compiled anim in another, all ready to run...

                    Christopher



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #176 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Gearwheels
Date: 12 Mar 94 10:27:23 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)

Hi there..

I'm seeking for different gearwheels/Cog Wheels.
So if *you* got one in you Iob collection please send it to me
UUEncoded, and i would be very pleased...

Thanks in advance..

        SObren Wind - IZI/ImPACT       __     _____        _______
 /\\   GFX / 3D Design / Raytrace    (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / /\\
 \\/ Fidonet Scala  2:230/418.30     /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \\/
     Fidonet ATeam  2:230/714.17    /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\
      Amiganet : 39:141/104.30         /     \      |__\_____\
     Internet : [e-mail]     /_______\
   A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33MHz+SVGA

 <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= So GooD, So Far, So WHAT ? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->

... this tag wastes your time and mine...


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #177 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Conformations
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 10:33:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Kilkenny <[e-mail]>

    Heeeeelo  Nurse!  Hi Imagineers!


    Gots'  a question for all of you,  lessee I'm using IM2.9.
Anyway what I'm trying to do is Make a Logo.  The Logo has Two Separate
lines of words:


1.)    Hello This Is a Test


2.)    This One Is on the Bottom



    Anyway what I am doing is trying to Conform them to a Sphere.
The first one worked out fine.  I wanted to make it go in the "Y"
Direction.  Poof!  No Prob.   Oke the second one I wanted to go in the Z
direction,  I tried rotating it to the direction I wanted to go.  Nothing
happens.   Then I made a PATH for it to convolve to,  <Click!>  Nothing
Happens.  I hope you can Kind Of Visualize what I am Saying.  Anyway If
Anyone Has Any Ideas,  It would Be Much Appreciated.  Thanks!


    - Eric Kilkenny


::[e-mail]...::

:::::F R I Z Z L E  F R Y:::::

Hello all you Boys and Girls.
I'd like to take you to the inside
world.
It's quite an irregular place to
Be.
But Never Fear You're Safe with
Me.
Well,  Mabey.

       - Lester Claypool

:::::::AMIGA 2500 030 @25mhz:::::::
:BASS PLAYING,  RENDERING MANIAC!!:


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #178 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Making Trees...
Date:     Sat, 12 Mar 1994 14:49:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greets Imagineers!

Well, thanx for the great response to my 'Building of Trees' question.

It would seem that most recomend Vertex 2.0 for this.  I'll have to take
another look at this program, especially if it produces good leaves on
the trees.

I have downloaded a program, Tree3D, that makes trees for Sculpt 3D.  A
little Interchangin' and were off to Imagine land.  This program can
produce some half decent trees (and snowflakes), but without the leaves.
 Maybe I could fake the leaves by using the Particle feature in Imagine
2.9.  Just lay a few planes along the branches, and have the faces
replaced with my custom leaves!  COOL!  (if it works, and looks good,
that is)

As far as Snap Maps go, I think I'll wait for Imagine 3.0 before getting
these.  Maybe I'll have some fun creating my own!

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #179 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Displacement Maps & POV
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 12:11:27 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Wed, 9 Mar 1994, Michael Whitten wrote:

> Anyway, is anyone aware of some method of generating displacement maps
> for Imagine, perhaps through TDDD?  Can POV object scripting SOMEHOW be
> translated to Imagine object format?  Any comments on this are welcome.

The Applique function in Imagine 2.9 is supposed to give a kind of a
displacement map. It changes the surface of an object according to the
map (shades of grey) that is applied to it. To get good results lots of
polygons are needed though.

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #180 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: IML Archives
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 12:07:53 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Wed, 9 Mar 1994, Michael Whitten wrote:

> a gate like that.  The IML archives are stored at ftp.wustl.edu in
> systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine/archive (whew!).  If there's any way
> possible for you to FTP them from that site, give it a try.  There are 39
> of them - each in lharc format - and total almost 2.5 megs UNCOMPRESSED.
> Yowwww!  I'm still only up to archive 10 (I like to keep my nose in
> Imagine rather than text screens, but they are still VERY helpful.)
> Perhaps a friend can ftp for you; if not, then perhaps SOMEONE here on IML

Just a correction here. There are actually 43 archives that are available
through FTP. The last few are in systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine.

There are in fact 47 archives so far, but I haven't been able to put the
last 4 onto wuarchive as I no longer (why I don't know) have upload
access to the incoming/imagine directory.

BTW, has anyone tried uploading anything to there recently ?

I will be now putting the archives onto Aminet.

Nik. (The not-so-famous IML archivist)



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #181 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Upload alert
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 09:18:13 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)

Thanks for the help getting the moon picture.
I have completed that piece and I uploaded it along with 4 other
pictures I have done but never put up on Aminet.
It will take a little while to filter them to the right area
but watch for
Lighthse.jpg  Scale representation of the St. Joesph pier (Thanks for the moon)
setfree.jpg  Religious theme, picture of 'freedom'
32dodge2.jpg Night scene with the 32dodge Viewpoint object (1024x768)
globe.jpg  (this is my best one I think) Satelite viewing earth 704x1024
driverse.jpg Drivers seat view. Composite Scenery Anim and Imagine
choice.jpg  Religious, World condition?

Comments apprecieted.
Adam Benjamin
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #182 ***************************************:-)

Subject: DEM files and Re:Flourescent lights
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 17:45:31 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Lowell Lindenbach)

>  Regarding the "realistic", or at least effective rendering of light
>  emitted from a long flourescent tube...
>     egarding the flourescent tube, though, I'd definitely try the
>   conic light source with the oval shaped 'base'.  Yes, they emanate from
>   a single point, but the effect on a surface below could be quite
>   satisfying with 'diminish intensity' and a slightly higher than ambience
>   colour setting.The only problem I could foresee is that nasty tendency
>   for light sources to ONLY illuminate those things tenaciously residing

         I hope nobody is annoyed with this somewhat offtopic reply. I got
curious about the problem of a fluorescent tube as an object and decided to
try it in Real3d. R3d has a light line option that I thought might apply
quite well. I set up a simple object with a cylinder and light line running
through the middle. I added a glass material and jacked the turbidity all
the way up. The results are halfway to what I was hoping for...as a newbie
to R3d and 3d software in general, I'm kinda moving in the dark here.
         What I was wondering is this: does anyone know how to eliminate the
really odd shadows that a max turbidity setting makes? It kind of looks like
light coming through a very highly faceted window. I tried turning down the
turbidity and making the object less transparent but once I do that, the
white glow that was originally there is gone.
         There is one other reason I posted to the IML :) I remember somebody
mentioning sometime back that there was an anonymous ftp site for DEM files
of the U.S. you could use in Vistapro. Could somebody please let me know the
address? Much appreciated.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

--
Lowell Lindenbach    [e-mail]
                     castrov.UUCP!ender!eridanus!lindenbach
                     Fido: Lowell Lindenbach 1:134/27


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #183 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 19:36:16 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Tony Jones)

Posted for Frank Aalbers:

Question to IMPULSE .

Will it be possible in V3.0 to see the lightbeams of a conical- or tube-light
in a foggy scene ? Lets say like the Lightwave effects in the SeaQuest
under- waterscenes .

HASTA LA VISTA from Franky !



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #184 ***************************************:-)

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 13:39:35 +1000
From: [e-mail]

>From miggins!bob Sat, 12 Mar 94 23:29:16 GMT +1000 remote from airley.apana.org
.au
Received: by airley.apana.org.au (V1.17-beta/Amiga)
      id <[e-mail]>; Sat, 12 Mar 94 23:29:16 GMT +1000
Received: by miggins.apana.org.au (V1.17-beta/Amiga)
      id <[e-mail]>; Sat, 12 Mar 94 20:20:32 +1000
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 20:20:32 +1000
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: //\\miga Electronic Mail (AmiElm 2.253)
Organization: Hedgehogs on Amphetamines
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Bob Rye)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Amiga Format December Coverdisk

Hello all. This is my first post, so please be gentle. (I actually
hate it when someone opens with that line. Please forget that!) I
bought the December Amiga Format with the Imagine 2.0 coverdisk.
Unfortunately, this version is the vanilla 68000 version. Could
someone please tell me the easiest way to get the floating-point
version of this great program? I know that I am supposed to send away
to England for it, but I was wondering if someone could help me
electronically!?

I originally bought Imagine 1.0, but haven't upgraded or anything. So,
I leave the question to you guys! Thanks!

Bob Rye
---
#define [e-mail] "Bob Rye"
#define 3:633/359.7 "fidonet"
#define house "St. Albans, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia"

Right now, somebody's got the wrong idea.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #185 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine 2.9 and Gigamem
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 06:02:00 BST
From: [e-mail]

I have tried once or twice to get Imagine to see Gigamem's vmem without
result, mainly just playing around. I noticed that 2.0 seemed to work o.k.
My system is an A3000 with 32+2 megs of ram, the hd with Imagine is a
Connors 540 meg that SysInfo tells me there is a 2.2meg per second access
time on. I have a PP&S 28mhz 68040 in the co-processor slot. The first
thing I noticed is that in Gigamems program list, ImagineFP is listed. And
Diskmaster showed Imagine 2.9 as imagine.fp (note the dot, duh). The only
other program I ever use Gigamem with is ADPro, and to do that, you first
start Gigamem, set the prefs for ADPro, then start ADPro. After modifying
Gigamem's program list to show imagine.fp, I gave it a try. After a few
curses, I found that to use Gigamem with Imagine 2.9, you first start
Imagine, pop it to the back and start Gigamem, set the prefs for imagine.fp,
go back to Imagine's screen, select the new Memory item, and presto! 100+
megs to cook with! (I have a 80meg vmem partition) I have Gigamem set for
an 8meg swap buffer, with "Use Vmem First". So I said to myself "This is
the good news, now lets see the bad news". So I have this project I'm working
on, with a very sizable and complex group of objects, each with several
states, the group comes to about 4 megs in size. A 1k by 1k global reflect
bitmap, and some other stuff, when rendering in scanline without Gigamem
takes about 22megs after initializing. With out Gigamem, it took 5 minutes
46 seconds to render. With Gigamem activated it took 6 minutes 4 seconds.
These renderings are scanline, btw. So I figured for a real test, I'll just
clone the object. I did, but repositioning a massive object/group in Stage
with Gigamem set is a lesson in patience. I was gonna do more than one clone,
but it really takes too long. Any way, I had more in ram than I could render
without Gigamem, so I saved and exited (more patience, about 4 minutes),
went to Project and rendered. Twelve and a half minutes to cook. During the
rendering I checked the WB and it showed fast ram down to 6 megs, and Vmem
down by 20 megs, just about right. So I would highly reccomend it. Seeing
that 101+ megs available is sweet indeed........Bill


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #186 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Moon iff (again)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 09:53:55 +0100
From: "Robin Chytil" <[e-mail]>

> Sooo,  If anyone knows where a good (even 16 color) picture of the moon
> is I would sure appreciate it!

Look at a NASA site (ftp at jplinfo.jpl.nasa.gov, IP 137.78.104.2, path
/images).
I found there many *REAL* images, including a very nice picture of the moon
(called something like moon.gif).

Robin

--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #187 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 07:54:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>Hello all. This is my first post, so please be gentle. (I actually
>hate it when someone opens with that line. Please forget that!) I
>bought the December Amiga Format with the Imagine 2.0 coverdisk.
>Unfortunately, this version is the vanilla 68000 version. Could
>someone please tell me the easiest way to get the floating-point
>version of this great program? I know that I am supposed to send away
>to England for it, but I was wondering if someone could help me
>electronically!?
>
>I originally bought Imagine 1.0, but haven't upgraded or anything. So,
>I leave the question to you guys! Thanks!
>
>Bob Rye
>---
>#define [e-mail] "Bob Rye"
>#define 3:633/359.7 "fidonet"
>#define house "St. Albans, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia"
>
>Right now, somebody's got the wrong idea.

Hi Bob;
        Here are some imagine sites I don't know what these actually
contain but I was suprised to find imagine out on the net.

geocub.greco-prog.fr:/pub/amiga/local/imagine
geocub.greco-prog.fr:/pub/amiga/local/raytracing/imagine
ftp.luth.se:/pub/amiga/text/docs/imagine-res.txt
ftp.luth.se:/pub/amiga/text/docs/imagine-res.txt.readme
ftp.luth.se:/pub/amiga/pix/trace/imagine.lzh
geocub.greco-prog.fr:/pub/amiga/aminet/pix/trace/imagine.readme
ftp.luth.se:/pub/amiga/pix/trace/imagine.readme
ftp.germany.eu.net:/pub/comp/amiga/gfx/ImagineObj
geocub.greco-prog.fr:/pub/amiga/local/imagine/Imagine_FAQ_3.lha


                                Render Ho!
                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #188 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: overlapping transparency & render times
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 09:29:15 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

> <first that it might use a 40 MHz 040 instead of 25 Mhz with a better
> <memory subsystem than the 4000 has.  But then the ad said that it only
> <runs at 25 MHz.  So I'm not sure what it does.

> How about a math-coprocesor that i on a 40 Mhz clock asyc'd with the
> 68040 somehow?? Or maybe they have a 25 Mhz 68040 with a super cooled
> CPU running at 40 Mhz (internally 80 Mhz... yikes).

Actually, it turns out they just have a plain old vanilla 25 MHz part
but they've put it on a better memory subsystem than the A4000 has.
That is apparently enough to get the 80% speed up.  They claim to be
making a 40 MHz version, with the better memory subsystem, which should
render 3X as fast as a stock 4000.  (As you say, yikes.  I want one :-)

> PS- Chances are, 060's will never exist.. Its the PowerPC unless the 88000

68060s exist now, just not in quantity.

But I still think the best bet is a standalone Imagine rendering engine
(no user interface) that could be ported to different systems (read:
Unix, or maybe the Newtek Screamer).  Make it pure ANSI C so its easy to
move around to different hardware.

  - steve


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #189 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Imagine 2.9 and Gigamem
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 11:57:49 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  6:02 AM 3/14/94 +0100, [e-mail] wrote:
>I have tried once or twice to get Imagine to see Gigamem's vmem without
>result, mainly just playing around. I noticed that 2.0 seemed to work o.k.

>The only
>other program I ever use Gigamem with is ADPro, and to do that, you first
>start Gigamem, set the prefs for ADPro, then start ADPro. After modifying
>Gigamem's program list to show imagine.fp, I gave it a try. After a few
>curses, I found that to use Gigamem with Imagine 2.9, you first start
>Imagine, pop it to the back and start Gigamem, set the prefs for imagine.fp,
>go back to Imagine's screen, select the new Memory item, and presto! 100+
>megs to cook with! (I have a 80meg vmem partition)

Interesting.  What happened if you started Gigamem and then ran Imagine?
What is the "new Memory" item?  It never occurred to me to run Imagine and
then start VM.

I've been working with VMM40 (the freeware VM software) and have a similar
setup.  I have a 2000 with PP&S 28MHz 68040 card, 16MB of 32-bit wide fast
mem and 2MB of chip.  I originally started working with VM as a way of
compositing 1280x1024 24-bit images in ImageMaster r/t with enough memory
for an undo buffer.  This works, so I set out to see how else I could
use VM.  VMM40 came with a list of apps that are said to work with it and
Imagine 2.0 (FP version) was one of them.  I tried Imagine 2.9 and got it to
work, except that it had trouble loading objects, saying "Not a TDDD type
object" or some such, making Imagine unusable for me.

I'm using device swap (swapping into a 42MB partition) and a fixed, 10MB
buffer, and a priority of 40 for VM, meaning that it is used where possible
before physical memory.  The only anomalies I've found are a severe dislike
of the ASwarmII screenblanker and a tendency for small, triangular shaped
pieces of the screen to slowly flash in and out, usually the text a the
left side of a shell or requester.

>So I would highly reccomend it. Seeing
>that 101+ megs available is sweet indeed........Bill

It is nice, isn't it?  :-)  I may have to pick up Gigamem if I can't resolve
the remaining problems I'm having with VMM40.  I'll be contacting the author
shortly with my list of questions.  Meanwhile, does anyone else have any
experience using VMM40 with Imagine 2.9?  I would like to hear any advice
or experiences you care to share.

It would be especially helpful if the 3.0 beta testers could test Imagine
3.0 with both Gigamem and VMM40.  The author of VMM40 provides a simple,
one page document describing how to avoid conflicts with virtual memory.  I
would be glad to send it to anyone who is developing or testing Imagine 3.0.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #190 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 12:24:51 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)

>Posted for Frank Aalbers:
>
>Question to IMPULSE .
>
>Will it be possible in V3.0 to see the lightbeams of a conical- or tube-light
>in a foggy scene ? Lets say like the Lightwave effects in the SeaQuest
>under- waterscenes .
>

     John Gross (one of the Seaquest animators) replied to (almost) the
same question on the Lightwave mail-list. He reccomended that the beams be
make out of cones and mapped. Use a transparency map to make the cone
transparent towards the end and a fractal brush to give the swirling
effect. You might want to use Essence's fractals for that as they contain
a time parameter. I'm making a eel being chased by a diver right now and
will send you the results (or post them) of my efforts.

     I thought Lightwave had turbulant fog and visible light effects after
seeing Seaquest too. Just good fakery you can do at home too. Imagine DOES
need better lighting though. Glow behind etc.... Let's hope it's in 3.0


                     Christopher

ps. You might want to subscribe to the Lightwave list, even if you don't
own the software. Lot's of good advice that can be applied to Imagine.



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #191 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:
Date:     Mon, 14 Mar 1994 16:28:27 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>Hi Bob;
>        Here are some imagine sites I don't know what these actually
>contain but I was suprised to find imagine out on the net.

Do you mean that the actual Imagine program is on the net?  The software
is not public domain and if found on a site should be reported to the
sys admin.  Correct me if I'm wrong but Imagine has not been made PD.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #192 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Transparent Edges???
Date:     Mon, 14 Mar 1994 21:23:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greets Imagineers!

Does anyone know (Scott, Mike??) if Imagine 3.0 will offer transparent
edges, such as those in LightWave (yes, that terrible 'L' word).  After
reading the LW Mailing List, this appears to be a very useful feature.
I'd love to have it, especially when making transparent tubes or cones.
Also, what about some kind of 'Inverse Fog' so that wide areas would
have little fog, and tight areas would have more fog (such as using
cones for lights).

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #193 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Re:
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 21:36:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>>Hi Bob;
>>        Here are some imagine sites I don't know what these actually
>>contain but I was suprised to find imagine out on the net.
>
>Do you mean that the actual Imagine program is on the net?

I never decompressed it to see. Like I said I don't know what they actually
conatian. But there is an imagine.lzh or lha on the list

> The software is not public domain and if found on a site should be reported
>to >the
>sys admin.  Correct me if I'm wrong but Imagine has not been made PD.

I would say you are right in this, I just did a archie search and the list
was what I sent to you. If this is truly Imagine then Impulse should
certainly know about it as well.

>
>Jason K.
>Cybernetic Expressions

I Just came back from Wordperfect headquarters Where I saw the release of
the new power Macintosh. It uses the new powerPC microprocessor. WHOA! boy
it rendered a scene with a mirror as fast as my amiga displays one. The
textures where done by grabbing them with the mouse and placing them over
the item you wanted covered and it rendered them right then. the real time
display I saw looked as though it responded as fast as they were moving the
mouse. It was as though they just drove around in the scene real time. Yes
they added reflecting mirrors and glass. Simulating Windows nt was slightly
faster than a 66Mhz Pentium.
After showing the power of system 7 and windows they pulled up Ms dos and
did a dir and everyone laughed a lot! I guess the old directory listing
looks pretty bland these days....

 Well blabbered on enough                               Render Ho!
                                                           Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #194 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 15:15:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Kilkenny <[e-mail]>

> ps. You might want to subscribe to the Lightwave list, even if you don't
> own the software. Lot's of good advice that can be applied to Imagine.


    Per Chance COuld you supply me with the address for The lightwave
Mailing List?  I'v gotten it from several People but each time it doesn't
seem to want to work.  Usually the other people I'v gotten from weren't
subscribers though,  So they could have been wrong.  Appreciate it if
you could let me know the address.  Think it was something like @bob's
Box or something.  Thanks ahead of Time


    - eric Kilkenny


::[e-mail]...::

:::::H E C K L E R:::::

LES:  Were just waiting for
      this Bastard.  Everbody
      say, "Larry Your a Bastard".

Crowd: "Larry your a Bastard".

        - PRIMUS (LIVE)

:::::::AMIGA 2500 030 @25mhz:::::::
:BASS PLAYING,  RENDERING MANIAC!!:


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #195 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 10:11:57 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Christopher Stewart writes:
>      John Gross (one of the Seaquest animators) replied to (almost) the
> same question on the Lightwave mail-list.
>      I thought Lightwave had turbulant fog and visible light effects after
> seeing Seaquest too. Just good fakery you can do at home too.

There are three elements that LightWave has that Imagine does not that make
lightbeams and glow effects easy to do and look good. They are transparent
edges, additive surface, and good lense flare. Perhaps the the new glow
texture in Imagine 3.0 will help somewhat.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #196 ***************************************:-)

Subject: A quick question and some conjecture
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 10:02:08 PST
From: [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)

Could someone post/e-mail me how to get onto the lightwave mailing list?
I have been subscribing to this mailing list for a while to get info
on Imagine, but I am also interested in the Video Toaster/Lightwave
package for a possible purchase at the end of the year. (Just trying to
be a well-informed consumer.)

Now some conjecture:

Now that Apple has released a power-pc box, has anyone run Imagine on it
in its Windows mode? Would be interested to hear about the results.

A rumor I heard from a friend is that Newtek may soon be releasing a
Video Toaster card for Intel-based pc's. Anyone heard anything on this?
If this were true, C='s sales of high-end(?) 68040 machines could really
take a beating. It would probably cause me to buy a PC based video toaster
system rather than an Amiga4000 system.

                                         Thanks,
                                         Thorne K. Kontos
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #197 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 15:07:10 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)

>
>> ps. You might want to subscribe to the Lightwave list, even if you don't
>> own the software. Lot's of good advice that can be applied to Imagine.
>>
>
>    Do you have the mailing-list request address?
>
>            Thanks
>
>            Ken

     Not handy (and I wouldn't rely on my memory, I don't ;-). Just check
out comp.graphics.animation or the like. There are posts there all the
time. You might want to subscribe to the Toaster and 3DStudio groups too.

                    Christopher



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #198 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 15:01:29 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)

     Mark pecks:

>There are three elements that LightWave has that Imagine does not that make
>lightbeams and glow effects easy to do and look good. They are transparent
>edges, additive surface, and good lense flare. Perhaps the the new glow
>texture in Imagine 3.0 will help somewhat.

     Transparent edges I know but what are additive surfaces? (s.v.p). I
experimented with doing "glow behinds" with Imagine's lens flare texture
but can't seem to get the right effect, especially difficult as I was
working around the transparency/fog/backdrop problem with a moving camera
to boot ;-(. What makes Lightwave's work so well (or am I missing
something again)?
     Folks, make sure to try the "conform to path" in the action editor's
alignment timeline.
An animation was recently uploaded using this undocumented feature and I'm
having a HELL of a lot of fun with it. If anyone figures out a way to keep a
portion of the object rigid (ie. an eel's head), please let us all know...

                    Christopher


--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #199 ***************************************:-)

Subject: PeeCee version
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 00:19:52 +0100 (MET)
From: gp152 <[e-mail]>

Yesterday I tried (5 mins) Imagine 2.9 PC, this is a short review (very short
indeed)

    - First the PC version is *exactly* the same as the amiga one, you
      can even find HAM viewmode (urgh ?) in the project editor.
      The mouse is used just as an amiga mouse : the first button to pick,
      drag, .... and the third for the menus (in fact u can use both
      buttons for the menus, but if u use the amiga version, the passage
      to the PC one will take ... 1 second)

    - Speed speed speed, what we all need. Well on a 486DX33 a scanline
      rendering took me 1min32, on my A4040 it took 3min35 for the same
      scene in the same image size *:-(

I have a question now : i bought an expensive A4040 for 2 reasons :
    - I *really* like the amiga system
    - I wanted the fastest computer, and everybody told me that a
        25mhz '40 was faster than a 33mhz 486 ...

Well it seems one point is false. So is it REAL ( i just made a short try )
that imagine runs faster on a 486DX33 than on a 4040/25. Did anyone make
serious comparisons ... And shall I keep my miga ???

_____________________________________________________________________________
| _  //    Arnaud Ladriere.                 A4000/40        |
| \\//    Email : [e-mail]    IRC : Kador on #amigafr        |
=============================================================================
| Love is the key that unlocks the door but you never know what's waiting   |
| behind ...             Justin Sullivan - New Model Army                   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #200 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: A quick question and some conjecture
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 18:08:33 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Could someone post/e-mail me how to get onto the lightwave mailing list?

>From the list administrator.........

-- OK! HOW DO I JOIN? --

To become a member of the Lightwave3D mailing list you must send a mail
message to the address:

    [e-mail]

Ask to be signed up and I will sign you up to the list.  At this point
in time the process is manual but I hope to get an automated script
based system in place soon.  There shouldn't be too much of a delay in
joining.  Expect a "welcome" message within 5 days after you send your
request.  Then, expect the mail to start flowing in!

-- HOW DO I QUIT THE LIST? --

Simply mail a request to be removed from the list to the same address
you used to sign up:

    [e-mail]

I will remove your name from the list of members.  PLEASE, if you join
the list and your account is going to be closed or if you will not be
able to receive mail for a while, send a request to be removed from the
list!  If you are just going to lose access for a short while still send
a request for a suspension of your membership and I will suspend
forwarding of the articles to you.

-- HOW DO I POST TO THE LIST? --

Contributing to the list is simple.  Just mail your articles to the
following address:

    [e-mail]

Your article will be processed by the system and distributed to all
others joined to the list.  Your articles will also be sent to you so
you know that your article has made it to the list.  However, those
addresses that are either no good or no longer active will bounce back
to you.  So, if you post an article and another members address is no
longer valid, your original article will be returned to you.  This
doesn't mean it hasn't been posted to the list.  In fact, just the
opposite is true. It means that your article WAS posted and that it
couldn't be sent to one or more of the members of the list due to a bad
address.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #201 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Conform to path (was: Visible Lightbeams)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:27:54 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  3:01 PM 3/15/94 -0800, Christopher Stewart wrote:

>     Folks, make sure to try the "conform to path" in the action editor's
>alignment timeline.
>An animation was recently uploaded using this undocumented feature and I'm
>having a HELL of a lot of fun with it. If anyone figures out a way to keep a
>portion of the object rigid (ie. an eel's head), please let us all know...

Is that how the Baby Snakes animation was done?  Sounds interesting.
If that's not it, how *was* Baby Snakes done?  In it, the bodies of
four snakes each follow and conform to its own closed path.

BTW, thanks for the tip.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #202 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Splitting large files
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 13:43:23 CET
From: [e-mail] (Jesper Rou Larsen)

reply to: [e-mail]

;Howdy out there,
;    Could anyone out there describe an effective way to split up
;large lha files so as to be put on 720K disks.  I can get the archive
;into my unix account, and via ftp into a local DOS machine, so a
;utility to split the archive on either of these mchines would be good.
;Of course something is also needed on the amiga to recombine the file.
;Many thanks in advance for replies to this.
;
;Chris Morris

ADPro comes bundled with two small programs called Splitz & Joinz,
that comes in both AmigaOS, Mac and PC versions.


 Best Regards, Jesper.
--
       __
      /// EMAIL: [e-mail]
     /// Postal: Jesper R Larsen, Trige Centervej 74stth DK-8380 Trige, Denmark
__  /// Phone: [phone]
\\\///  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 \XX/ Dreamline Designs - We make a difference!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #203 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Conform Object/Group to Path
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 01:33:00 BST
From: [e-mail]

This is a neat feature in the Action editor. For your example of a moving
eel with a straight head, try placing the object's/group's axis roughly
where the neck is. Also, make sure the axis is oriented so that positive y
is pointed along the path the direction you want it to go. Some interesting
things about this feature is that "tacking" is automatically enabled on an
object conforming/following the path, and that the Snapshot command can be
used from the Stage editor to circumvent the Conform to Path bug in the
Detail editor.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #204 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: PeeCee version
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 18:50:22 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)

>    - Speed speed speed, what we all need. Well on a 486DX33 a scanline
>      rendering took me 1min32, on my A4040 it took 3min35 for the same
>      scene in the same image size *:-(
>
>I have a question now : i bought an expensive A4040 for 2 reasons :
>    - I *really* like the amiga system
>    - I wanted the fastest computer, and everybody told me that a
>        25mhz '40 was faster than a 33mhz 486 ...
>
>Well it seems one point is false. So is it REAL ( i just made a short try )
>that imagine runs faster on a 486DX33 than on a 4040/25. Did anyone make
>serious comparisons ... And shall I keep my miga ???


     Keep your Amiga but upgrade the memory system, that's part of the
problem. I won't get into technobabble but C= didn't design a good memory
system (IMHO). You can get an "Xcaliber" board that replaces this system
for a (again IMHO) rather steep tag. I'm waiting to get a 40 mhz '040 or
'060 upgrade for the machine to circumvent the problem. This fix is
supposed to speed up integer operations up to 80%, I don't know what it'll
do for floating point operations.

                        Christopher




--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #205 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: A quick question and some conjecture
Date:     Tue, 15 Mar 1994 22:26:28 -0500
From: Mark B Sachs <[e-mail]>

> A rumor I heard from a friend is that Newtek may soon be releasing a
> Video Toaster card for Intel-based pc's. Anyone heard anything on this?
> If this were true, C='s sales of high-end(?) 68040 machines could really
> take a beating. It would probably cause me to buy a PC based video toaster
> system rather than an Amiga4000 system.

This rumor has been rattling around ever since the Toaster was launched,
spread more by wishful thinking on the part of PC owners than anything else.
I doubt there's any more truth to it today than there was years ago. From
all reports I've heard, Newtek is still exclusively an Amiga company.

-Mark



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #206 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Forge???
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 19:49:39 PST
From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>

Hi All,

     I just saw a posting to the Lightwave list about a new program out called
Forge, and was wondering if anyone has any info on this program. I believe it
is from Apex (or so the posting alluded to), and allows one to view texture
settings (Essence ??) in almost realtime. Any info would be appreciated.

                                                Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Member                 |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #207 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE PEECee Version
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 01:19:30 PST
From: 16-Mar-1994 0353 <[e-mail]>

> How are your machines set up?  A 25Mhz 68040 is about the same speed as
> a 50Mhz 486, independant testing.  So the processor all by itself is faster
> than a 33.

thats what i heard ...
> Your 4000 system could be configured in such a way that makes
> it slower.

yes the amiga multitasks, i think an option allowing to cut multitasking
if needed could help for big work

 Well theres more to life than rendering. The Amiga's ability to multitask
is the reason I own it(aside from the AGA graphics mode). The PeeCee folks
can write off their system once the rendering starts. Even if it is faster
they still lose thr machine until the bread is done. I can't Imagine(no pun)
not being able to use ADPro to process my images while the rest are still
rendering. If your project requires a reasonable amount of image processing
then you can't simply write off this capability. My 4000 may be slower at
rendering than the dog box but at least I don't have to watch tv while it's
doing it's thing. Any time you get a dedicated system it will outrun one that
is not regardless of the application. the 486 due to it's single minded
nature is a dedicated Imagine Renderer. I often have ADPro, Dpaint, Imagine,
and pixel 3D running while I'm at my system. How do you write off the ability
to do modeling (running Imagine twice) While a scene renders. I raced Go Carts
as a kid. Well I learned early that SPEED COSTS. Of course lest we forget the
Amiga does happen to have the Processor slot. I have a 2000 with an 030 in it
also. I could put an 040 card , and a 24bit card in it and have a system that
may out perform the 4000.(currently running a 40mhz 030. I have toyed with the
Idea of running parnet and having one system render the even frames and the
other the odd. the 4000 being faster would be geared to pull over the other
frames. BTW Many of the post I read complaining about speed actually mean
people have fallen into the trap of commiting to projects that exceed there
Systems capability. They could buy a 486 and still not be able to make a due
date. Like I said there is more to life than rendering. 1000 real nice frames
are useless if you can't get them processed.
                            bill

/******
Bias sure I am but then so is the rest of the world

*/


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #208 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 06:30:56 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>

>Subj:    PeeCee version
>
>Yesterday I tried (5 mins) Imagine 2.9 PC, this is a short review (very short
>indeed)

[stuff deleted]

>  - Speed speed speed, what we all need. Well on a 486DX33 a scanline
>    rendering took me 1min32, on my A4040 it took 3min35 for the same
>    scene in the same image size *:-(
>
>I have a question now : i bought an expensive A4040 for 2 reasons :
>    - I *really* like the amiga system
>    - I wanted the fastest computer, and everybody told me that a
>        25mhz '40 was faster than a 33mhz 486 ...
>
>Well it seems one point is false. So is it REAL ( i just made a short try )
>that imagine runs faster on a 486DX33 than on a 4040/25. Did anyone make
>serious comparisons ... And shall I keep my miga ???
>
>| _  //    Arnaud Ladriere.         A4000/40        |

  Well I sure hope that this thread dosen't turn into a PC -vs- Amiga
debate.  The Amiga may be better but this is NOT the place to discuss this.

  To address Arnaud's problem:  there may be several reasons for the
slower performance of the Amiga.

  1)  Do not promote the Imagine screen to DBL-NTSC (or PAL) mode if you
      want speed.  This mode eats lots of CPU cycles.  Buy an A2320 to
      de-interlace your video signal.  This card will not slow down the
      CPU like promoting a NTSC screen to DBL-NTSC will.

  2)  Select Imagine 24-bit format as the output mode.  Imagine must do
      24-bit conversion if you select another mode.

  Also, it would sure be nice if Imagine would make a 040 specific version
that REALLY takes advantage of this CPU.  I know Impulse claims that they
have optimized for the 040 "from the begining".  But it is obvious to any
informed individual that either Impulse does not know how to properly do
this OR they don't want to bother. :-(

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #209 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Forge???
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 07:36:40 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)

>Hi All,
>
>     I just saw a posting to the Lightwave list about a new program out called
>Forge, and was wondering if anyone has any info on this program. I believe it
>is from Apex (or so the posting alluded to), and allows one to view texture
>settings (Essence ??) in almost realtime. Any info would be appreciated.
>
>                                                Scott Lundholm
>
> *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

> | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |

> | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Member                 |

> | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |

> | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |

> | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |

> *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

        Yes, It is from Apex, it is a package that will be bundled with the
Essence textures, and Mr. Worley said that he will post info,on this list
and others, about it at the time of its release. I beleive it is a tool
that will allow one to see the changes made to a texture prior to actually
waiting for it to render. At least that's what was forwarded to me about
it.
                                        later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  "If I were writing the Bill of Rights now, there wouldn't be any such thing
   as the Second Amendment... This has been the subject of one of the
greatest
   pieces of fraud-- I repeat the word fraud--on the American public, by
   special-interest groups, that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
                        Former Supreme Court chief justice Warren Burger,
                        on how the gun lobby trumpets the Second Amendment,
                        which includes the right to bear arms

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #210 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 17:36:21 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>      Transparent edges I know but what are additive surfaces?

Additive is an interesting surface attribute that adds the value of the
new surface to the background rather than blending it. Its sort of like
a builtin brightening function. As an example, if you overlap multiple
conventional transparent surfaces, even if they are bright, they tend to
attenuate one another. But with additive they get brighter and brighter
very rapidly, perfect for lighting effects.

> experimented with doing "glow behinds" with Imagine's lens flare texture
> What makes Lightwave's work so well (or am I missing something again)?

Your not missing anything. LightWave's lens flare is just implemented
far better.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #211 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Making Trees...
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:36:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greets Imagineers!

>There is a trick in Vertes for user defined leafs. Just create a object
>and name it leaf before creating a tree then Vertex takes this object
>as its leaf object.

Wow!  Custom leaves!  Now I'll definately have to retry Vertex 2.0!
Thanx!

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #212 ***************************************:-)

Subject: pc mem/morphing
Date: 16 Mar 94 03:04:00 -0800
From: [e-mail]

     I plan to run imagine on an ibm and render to a DPS animboard.
     If I want to render fairly complex scenes, is 16mb ram enough?
     [appreciate your opinion]


     Also, I want to morph between objects with different numbers of
     points.  This will likely be a heavily used effect.  Will 3.0
     support this feature or is Morphus (from Impulse) a
     stable/reliable program for this purpose?


     Thanks for the input!

     Ed


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #213 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: RE PEECee Version
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 19:24:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew McDonald <[e-mail]>

I think Real3D may be slower on the PC because it runs as a Windows app,
which adds an enormous amount of overhead.

The only *real* complaint that I can say about Imagine is that it really
needs a new interface, or rather some updates.

Andrew.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #214 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Wavefront converters
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:45:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

   A lot of the Wavefront objects on avalon.chinalake.navy.mil have errors
in them.  Also, for whatever reason, the Imagine format savers in
Interchange and PixelPro introduce errors into converted objects (duplicate
edges, points, bad edges, etc).  The problem is not so much in the loader
but in the saver.  If you save them to Sculpt or Lightwave, they seem to be
fine.  There seems to be no direct way around this with either program.  You
could probably load the Wavefront object into Interchange and save it out as
a .DXF and then try loading the .DXF with Imagine V2.9.  You might try
TDDDLib also as this has several convertors but maybe they only go FROM
Imagine TO other formats.  I don't think any of these convertors are 100%
effective though.  The other thing you can do is take the "bad" object into
Imagine and use Merge.  This will make it a "good" object but then it
usually is missing a lot of faces and it can be a pain and a half trying to
restore them.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine; dkb-l%trearn.bitnet
Cc: oakley
Subject: Wavefront converters
Date: Wednesday, March 16, 1994 10:42AM



        Is anyone aware of a converter for Wavefront objects (like the
several hundred on avalon.chinalake.navy.mil) to most anything else?

        I have the latest version of Interchange for the Amiga which does
not entirely work (I called in a bug report to Syndesis some months ago,
right after receiving the latest version).  It can produce an Imagine
object but the object contains several errors.  The files were copied
correctly and did not contain any extraneous characters.

        I would like to eventually convert the objects to Imagine and POV.

        If anyone has been able to sucessfully convert any of the .obj files
from avalon please post how you were able to do the conversion.

thanks
wayne oakley



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #215 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Wavefront converters
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:38:55 -0800
From: Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>

Cuz Interchange plus 3 has problems with Imagine. (I think it is the multi-
point polys with shared edges.) I first converted to LightWave then in LW
I tripled everything. Then converted from LW to Imagine. I haven't tried it
yet, but just converting to LW then to Imagine in Interchange might work.

Tim  [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #216 ***************************************:-)

Subject: CGAL
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 08:10:27 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

Could the Imagineer who was enquiring about the CGAL renderer please contact
me again so I can send the author/programmer your E-Mail address so you can
gain contact.

Also, could someone possibly mail me the address to register for the Real3D
mailing list.

Thanx Very Muchly.

Rich.

                   ___        ______
                  /__/\   ___/_____/\
                  \  \ \ /         /\\
                   \  \ \____     /  \
                 ___\  \ \  /\___/___ \
                /  / \__\/ /  \     /\ \
        _______/  /_______/    \   / _\/______
       /      /   \       \    /  / /        /\
    __/      /     \       \  /  / /        / _\__
   / /      /       \_______\/  / /        / /   /\
  /_/______/___________________/ /________/ /___/  \
  \ \      \    ___________    \ \        \ \   \  /
   \_\      \  /          /\    \ \        \ \___\/
      \      \/          /  \    \ \        \  /
       \_____/          /    \    \ \________\/
            /__________/      \    \  /
            \   _____  \      /_____\/
             \ /    /\  \    /   \  \ \
              /____/  \  \  /     \  \ \
              \    \  /___\/       \  \ \
               \____\/              \__\/


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #217 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Image brightness
Date: 17 Mar 1994   16:08:00 GMT
From: <[e-mail]>

>     plane.  I modified the 24 bit file's gamma settings in ADPro 2.5 to

    Make sure you run the operator: "Apply Map" after affecting the
color/brightness etc...  Otherwise the effects don't actually change the
brushmap.  I used to have this problem....the old version would always pop
up a box saying the changes wouldn't really affect it etc...  Try that.

Mike Comet
[e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #218 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: RE PEECee Version
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 08:46:17 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Lesk says:

> test. The only result you validate is how well the program has been
> compiled to either machine or How well you have your machine setup and

Good point.  It'd be interesting to know what compiler Imagine uses on
the Amiga.  Is it SAS/C 6.1?  Perhaps Mike can comment.

I happen to own both an A4000/040/25 (with C='s crummy memory
subsystem), and a 486/66.  I've done some testing with compiling the
same programs on both machines, and it seems to me that the PC is about
20-30% faster than the Amiga for integer options, while the reverse is
true for floating point.  But it depends on a lot of different things.

I just wish I could use both machines to render the same project at the
same time, because right now my PC just sits idle :-(.  This would
require all of the following:

  1. Me to purchase Imagine PC.  I'd like to purchase a UI-less version
     - no point to paying for the UI twice, since I will do all my
       modeling on the Amiga.

  2. Essence I and II PC.  I'm not sure if its out yet.

  3. A way to mount my Amiga's filesystem from the PC, and see all the
     filenames (I tend to use longish filenames).

  4. Me to upgrade the memory in my PC to maybe 16 Mb.  (My ami has 18
     Mb, the PC, 4.  Some of my projects take 22+ Mb to render.  22 in
     18 isn't bad, but even with virtual mem, 22 on 4 is going to be a
     bummer :-) ).

If I had that, I could set the PC to rendering every other frame,
thereby doubling (or more) my rendering throughput.  I'd gladly shell
out, say, $200 for a UI-less PC Imagine, and another $80 to $90 for
Essence PC I and II.  The third thing, however, is more unclear.  I've
been trying to find a way to do filesystem mounting across RS-232 for a
*long* time now.  If anybody has any tips, I'd certainly be grateful to
hear them.  Even if I had to give up long filenames, I could live with
that to double my rendering throughput.  (For animations only I guess).

Even better would be a UI-less Imagine that you could buy for things
like DEC Alpha, PA-Risc, etc.  Especially if it was cheap enough to be
affordable.

  - steve


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #219 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Greetings
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:04:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Wesley Jacocks <[e-mail]>

Hello everybody, I think I will introduce myself.  My name is Wesley
Jacocks and I am still very new to Internet. I am a PC user with a
80486DX2-66 PC and purchased Imagine 2.0 for the PC back in November. I
have to say the learning curve was like hitting a brick wall because
Impulse ran out of 2.0 manuals and gave me a copy of Imagine 2.9 with no
documentation until Imagine 3.0 came out in December (I am still waiting :-))
I was calling them with questions so frequently that they sent me a free
copy of "The Imagine Companion" until 3.0 was delivered.  The book has
helped a lot.

I have a question.  I want to create an object with a shape like that of
a coke bottle top.  I have tried several ways using revolve, spin, etc.,
but I can't seem to get the right effect. Anybody know how to do this
with Imagine?

Thanks
Wesley


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #220 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3.0's features...
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 14:18:08 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

 Hey all,

    Does anyone know whether there will be:

    - More support in the reflection map area (ie. 'fuzzy'
reflection would be terrific!!) Will individual objects be able to
have their own individual reflection maps?

    - For lack of a better term, channel based morphing (In the
sense that now it's linear.  Could it be 'channel' based. Like, be
able to define how fast an object morphs through a morph. Much the way
object speed along a path will be channel/motion graph based.

    - Better light FX implemented in a feature way (not texture
tricks. This would include all glow, flare, haze, fog, shadow  FX)

    - Kinematics (What kind? Examples would be nice)

    - More features when scanlining

    - Built in depth of field

    - Motion blur

    - Collision Detection


    I don't have 2.9 so I don't know how a lot of 'new' features
work (or even what they are)... For example, how exactly do states
work?
    I'm having problems with the cycle editor in that when I do
certain pivot combinations between key frames the scale of an object
will be affected. Will bones be a total skeleton-like hierarchy
animation method enabling scale locks (restrict) on grouped objects?
    What kind of particle animation does 2.9 (and will 3.0) have?
How flexible is it in terms of interacting with other objects?
    Does 2.9 have FFD (or something like it)? Will 3.0 have this
feature?

    Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. Speculation
is entirely welcome... Thanks...

                            J.---->

E-Mail: [e-mail]












IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #221 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Image brightness
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 12:55:46 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|>     plane.  I modified the 24 bit file's gamma settings in ADPro 2.5 to
|
|    Make sure you run the operator: "Apply Map" after affecting the
|color/brightness etc...  Otherwise the effects don't actually change the
|brushmap.  I used to have this problem....the old version would always pop
|up a box saying the changes wouldn't really affect it etc...  Try that.

    Thanks for the response.

    Hmmm... that's odd.  What does Apply Map mean?  I was under the
    impression that a "map" is merely an IFF file that is attached or
    "mapped" to an object.  Of itself the term "map" doesn't mean
    anything.

    I'm  trying a workaround that might solve my problem; although it is
    relying more on ADPro rather than Imagine.  I rendered my animated
    objects in Imagine without any background; ie. a black screen.  I
    created my background, my map, and composited the rendered Imagine
    file onto the background in ADPro.  The final image almost looks
    exactly the way I see it in my head (although I must admit that
    "what's in my head" is changing in lieu of the technical issues I'm
    dealing with).

    the final animation will be less complicated than my orginal
    storyboard due to my lack of memory, horsepower, and time.
    However, my results look great working within my limitations.
    Creating the animation frames and then using ADPro to composite my
    final product is working fine.  A little more manual work and thought,
    but it is actually faster than just letting Imagine do the whole
    thing.

    I'd also like to add some animated 2-D text to the animation.
    I have DPaint IV (non-AGA), DCTV, and ADPro (which has the Visual
    Text Operator).  I want to animate the text in 24 bit.  Imagine
    takes way to long to render my text and I only need 2-D text anyway.

    Is the following workflow the best way to do it?

    1 composite the Imagine frames over my background. I now
    know the position, and size, the text needs to be created at.

    2 Now this composited image becomes my new background for the text
    frames I need to create.

    3 Convert my 24bit background frame to HAM

    4 Import the frame into DPaint

    5 Make it a background

    6 Create the Text animation frames using DPaint animation tools

    7 Import the 16 color frames into ADPro again and save them as 24
    bit

    8 Composite the text frames (now 24 bit) over the previous 24 bit
    animation frames?

    Whew!!!  That seems like alot of work.  But is it my best option?



    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #222 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Hardware question
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 15:43:39 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Sorry to post this here but I don't have posting privileges to the
    Usenet.  So all of you are my link with the net; ain't you lucky ;-)

    In addition to creating animations I also am a muscian and am
    saving now for a sunrise 516 board.  I need a fast (10ms) drive in
    order to get proper playback on the Sunrise board.  Looking through
    Amiga World for mail order drives, it appears that the fast (10 ms
    or faster) drives are SCSI-2 devices.  Is this true?  I have a
    2500/30 with a SCSI-1 controller.  Are there 10ms drives that are
    SCSI-1?  I'm still a starving artist so I'm looking for 500M - 1Gig
    drives.

    Thoughts?  Anyone know of any "deals" out there in netland?

    Dale

        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #223 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0's features...
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 15:37:30 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  2:18 PM 3/17/94 -0500, Jeffrey Goldman wrote:
> Hey all,
>
>        Does anyone know whether there will be:

Sorry, I don't know what to expect past 2.9, but I do have a suggestion.
I would appreciate an "info" function in the detail editor.  I want to be
able to select an object (or group, set of faces, etc), and find out
how many points, lines and faces I'm looking at.  I also want to know
the extents (bounding box size) and I want to see a list of textures
or brush maps that have been applied.  I don't want to have to load the
object into the stage editor and pull up the find objects requester to
see how many faces I've got.  I also don't like having to pull up
attributes and click on the textures/brushes gadgets to see what has
been applied.

Speaking of that, I hope that 3.0's attributes requester shows the gadgets
that have been set.  Currently, you have to click on color, roughness, etc,
to see if they have been set, which is very tedious.  I understand that
3.0 is supposed to have a much improved user interface.  I hope they don't
overlook the obvious.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #224 ***************************************:-)

Subject: FOG & the blues
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 20:40:55 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

Hello Imagineers!

        I am having real trouble with fog. I  read the half page or so in
the manual, and the IML faq. alas to no avail, I am just all fogged up....
What I am trying to do is a scene where I have a light inside a chest and
as the chest opens rays and streaks of light come out of the box (bluish
for the most part but some pinkish reds would be good to). A sample exists
on compserv.snow.edu in "lesk's renderings" called Gazeebo.jpg (I am not
happpy with my floor either....) any advice would be very helpful
'Yes I am not an artistic genius I will be happy to accept critisisms on my
work anything to get me out of the "fog" mmm or into I guess...'.

                                                Thanks All and Render Ho!
                                                         Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #225 ***************************************:-)

Subject:  Re: Image brightness
Date:  Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:51:38 -0500
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>

Dale,

>     Hmmm... that's odd.  What does Apply Map mean?  I was under the
>     impression that a "map" is merely an IFF file that is attached or
>     "mapped" to an object.  Of itself the term "map" doesn't mean
>     anything.

  I think of it as applying a colour map ( I don't have my ADPro manual in
front of me here at work). When you work in ADPro, any colour balance changes
(including gamma, etc.) are applied as a look-up table to the 24-bit image to
get a rendered image. If you want to save the results as part of the 24-bit (or
"raw", as ADPro refers to it) image you need to use the "Apply Map" operator to
change the actual pixels in the raw image based on the colour map tables.  You
can then save it with all your changes as a 24-bit file.

Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@BMERHB63          |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| DMS System Performance Development     PHONE: [phone]                |
| Dept. 7D23                             ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Bell Northern Research                                                      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #226 ***************************************:-)

Subject: DCTV ?
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 15:16:12 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Cristian Gavazzeni - Sorint)

Hi all,
 I'think this is the time to introduce myself. I'm a new subscriber of imagine
mailing list and i'm a rookie in the field of amiga raytracing field.
unfortunately AMIGA Computer in Italy is considered a toy machine and I
noticed that American's users are more expert tha Italians ones.
I 've heard a lot of times the term DCTV , but what does it mean ? Is this
a new Amiga Framebuffer ?

Thanks in advance.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Cristian Gavazzeni - SUN Microsystems Italia s.p.a div. SUNservice
- Email: [e-mail]
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #227 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0's features...
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 15:58:17 +0100 (MET)
From: gp178 <[e-mail]>

    Hi, imagineers


>  Hey all,
>
>     Does anyone know whether there will be:
>
>     - More support in the reflection map area (ie. 'fuzzy'
> reflection would be terrific!!) Will individual objects be able to
> have their own individual reflection maps?

... ' don't know, but calculated reflection maps would be nice...

>
>     - For lack of a better term, channel based morphing (In the
> sense that now it's linear.  Could it be 'channel' based. Like, be
> able to define how fast an object morphs through a morph. Much the way
> object speed along a path will be channel/motion graph based.
>
>     - Better light FX implemented in a feature way (not texture
> tricks. This would include all glow, flare, haze, fog, shadow  FX)
>
>     - Kinematics (What kind? Examples would be nice)
>
>     - More features when scanlining
>

I think shadows will be cast in scanline mode, but what will be the technique
used ? Z-Buffer ? (I don't think so since Imagine doesn't use z-buffer) or
shadow maps ?
    There will also be improved anti aliasing, I think. *NICE*, because
version 2.9 has no good anti aliasing -compared to 3DStudio 3.0 !...-.

>     - Built in depth of field
>
>     - Motion blur

I tried the transformation Motion Blur of Image Master. It would be possible
to save a file in which there would information about objects location on the
image, what area of pixels they change, and their movement. Then it would be
possible to post-process the image, just like Image Master -great software !-


>     - Collision Detection

 ' seems to be impossible, but there already are boolean operations. So, if
a boolean operation is true (objects begin to intersect), there is collision
 (?)

>     I don't have 2.9 so I don't know how a lot of 'new' features
> work (or even what they are)... For example, how exactly do states
> work?

I just use them to "lock" a map on an object in order to stretch it. For
example, I modeled a tire, with a logo wrapped around. I created a tube,
with the logo straightly mapped on it, then I used a first state
to tell imagine it was the default state, I conformed the object to a
cylinder and voila. The result is on aminet /gfx/trace f1.jpg.

>     I'm having problems with the cycle editor in that when I do
> certain pivot combinations between key frames the scale of an object
> will be affected. Will bones be a total skeleton-like hierarchy
> animation method enabling scale locks (restrict) on grouped objects?

...'don't know ...

>     What kind of particle animation does 2.9 (and will 3.0) have?

Imagine transforms each face of an object into another tiny object and
this is called particules. It gives quite good results.

> How flexible is it in terms of interacting with other objects?
>     Does 2.9 have FFD (or something like it)? Will 3.0 have this
> feature?
>

What is FFD ?

>     Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. Speculation
> is entirely welcome... Thanks...
>
>                             J.---->

    Have fun with Imagine.
    Bye

    Stanis
    [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #228 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Image brightness
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 9:40:48 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|Dale,
|
|>     Hmmm... that's odd.  What does Apply Map mean?  I was under the
|>     impression that a "map" is merely an IFF file that is attached or
|>     "mapped" to an object.  Of itself the term "map" doesn't mean
|>     anything.
|
|  I think of it as applying a colour map ( I don't have my ADPro manual in
|front of me here at work). When you work in ADPro, any colour balance changes
|(including gamma, etc.) are applied as a look-up table to the 24-bit image to
|get a rendered image. If you want to save the results as part of the 24-bit (or

|"raw", as ADPro refers to it) image you need to use the "Apply Map" operator to

|change the actual pixels in the raw image based on the colour map tables.  You
|can then save it with all your changes as a 24-bit file.

    Ah.  Thanks.

    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #229 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:48:58 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>

> It seems like you were trying to avoid the whole issue of the
> Amiga / PC comparison.

  Yes, I was :-)

>...but I think it would be relevant to answer the users question
>about why the 4000 40Mhz completed the rendering in after the 486/33
>did.. I'd like to know anyhow...

  I thought I did answer his question?  I have heard reports that
using the AGA chipset's DBL (scan doubled) modes can slow the
CPU down by as much as 40-60%.  So if he was promoting Imagine
to a scan doubled mode he was slowing his processor.  By using
non-scan doubled modes he would get a big performance boost on
the Amiga 4000. (I don't have one so I can't prove this.  Anyone
with an A4000 care to?)  Of course you could always run Imagine
on a DBL mode and then just switch to another screen once
rendering begins.

  Also the A4000 has a 25MHz 68040 not 40MHz.  But even being
only 25MHz it should still beat a 33MHz 80486 under the right
conditions.  The new Amiga 4000's due out real soon now will
have an improved memory system and offer higher clock speeds,
or so I've heard.  One of the problems with the current 040
Amiga 4000's is that the memory interface was designed for
a 030 processor.  Therefore they added some additional glue
logic to get the 040 processor working with this memory system.
This has the effect of slowing down the 040's memory access
speed by as much as 80%.

  So the slower speed of 040 based Amiga 4000 is also partly
due to the inefficient memory to microprocessor design.  This
is being reworked in newer model A4000's.

>Besides, I'm getting a PowerPC which is bound to blow both away,
>but I'd still like to know what Impulse did to make the 486/33
>faster, because logically, its not (logical).
>
>Kiernan

  Well go with whatever makes you happy.  Myself, I tend to usually
by computer technology that is 1 generation behind the current
state of the art, cutting edge (or should that be bleeding edge).
Technology that is 1 generation behind is usually much cheaper and
has a much better price/performance ratio.  Also, slightly older
technology usually has all of the bugs worked out and you get a
much more stable system.  I don't like being a beta-tester at my
own expense.

  Don't Forget:  no matter what you buy today, there will
always be something better available tomorrow. ;-)

My 2 cents.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #230 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: RE PEECee Version
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:58:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew McDonald <[e-mail]>

>
> Even better would be a UI-less Imagine that you could buy for things
> like DEC Alpha, PA-Risc, etc.  Especially if it was cheap enough to be
> affordable.
>
>   - steve
>
Essentially this is the idea being developed by a lot of other 3D
software developers. A stand-alone rendering engine that runs on
different platforms, or on the same platform for networks. It could be
expensive, like NetRenderman (Mac and Unix machines networked), or
inexpensive, Animation:Master (formerly Playmation) on the PC gives the
user an unlimited license to use the command-line renderer on other PC's,
3D Studio has a similar option (I know, I know, high initial cost, blah,
blah...).

I'm not sure if Impulse has any plans for this, but the real costs of
rendering are in hardware - 16 mgs RAM seems to be the minimum (on the PC
Imagine cannot currently use virtual mem), plus large local hd's, or a
network file server.

my .02
Andrew.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #231 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Like a Bottle Cap
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:54:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  (Just had to reply to a message from someone named Wesley! Hi, Wes!)

    I'd probably not be the first to reply with a shout for the magic
    of the forms editor.  I think it would be easier than tweaking
    things in detail.  Have you been acquainted with KEY cross-sections
    in the forms editor?  In the original forms editor with .9 and 1.0,
    changing a points position in the TOP view effected that
    cross-section change down the entire length of the form.  With KEY
    cross sections, you can define cross section shapes that 'stay put'
    until the NEXT key section (which by default includes the
    'uppermost' and 'lowermost' cross-sections.
        Perhaps make your 'lower' cross-section starburst shape and
     the 'topmost' cross-section circular.  For a bottle cap
    specifically, you'd probably want just one more key cross section
    closer to the top, also circular, to diminish the starburst form
    before it reaches the top.  Imagine will interpolate smoothly
    between these keys and you will grin maniacally, jump up and down,
    or whatever your specific neurosis entails.  (Mine involves alot of
    noise, usually a celebratory trip to the Fridge at 3AM or so...)
    Take care and tell me how it turns out (so to speak)
   wes~  (parham)



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #232 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 08:47:09 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)

Hi-de-Ho Imagineers
Previously on 'As the CPU churns'...
> >...but I think it would be relevant to answer the users question
> >about why the 4000 40Mhz completed the rendering in after the 486/33
> >did.. I'd like to know anyhow...
>
>   I thought I did answer his question?  I have heard reports that
> using the AGA chipset's DBL (scan doubled) modes can slow the
> CPU down by as much as 40-60%.

Well, I don't think I came up with 40-60% but yes I have done some tests
with my 4000/40  (NOT 40Mhz though 8) and it has conviced me that putting
a 300x200 4 bit picture in the foreground while rendering is definately
a speed booster.  This is just the tip of the iceburg in explaining why a
4000/40 will never out render a 486PC. But it all relates back to the root
cause:  WorkBench.

>  ....  But even being
> only 25MHz it should still beat a 33MHz 80486 under the right
> conditions.
The right conditions would be either:
Running the 4000 without Workbench, or maybe running the PC renderer under
OS/2, windows won't cut it because the renderer will just "freeze out" the
rest of the tasks.
Workbench is great, I won't do without it, but if you want to multitask you
got to be willing to pay the price in CPU cycles, period.

Enough rambling though...
Now on with the rest of the show.
Adam B [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #233 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: FOG & the blues
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 10:17:11 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>Hello, Lesk,
Hi Stanis;
>
>>         I am having real trouble with fog. I  read the half page or so in
>> the manual, and the IML faq. alas to no avail, I am just all fogged up....
>> What I am trying to do is a scene where I have a light inside a chest and
>> as the chest opens rays and streaks of light come out of the box (bluish
>> for the most part but some pinkish reds would be good to). A sample exists
>> on compserv.snow.edu in "lesk's renderings" called Gazeebo.jpg (I am not
>> happpy with my floor either....) any advice would be very helpful
>
>        I had the same problem while creating a scene. I wanted lights to
>point on a dance floor, so I also wanted these lights to be seen. The only
>solution I found was to add a cone around the light and give this cone a
>fog texture. The color of the light has no influence; You can only see the
>color of the cone. Another thing you must know is that you cannot use a
>backdrop image if you use foggy objects. In your case, I would model an
>object including the space where fog should be lighten, make it foggy, and
>then put a spherical light source inside the box.
>        This technique can be used with a scanline rendering, you're not
>bound to trace and cast shadows... (but reflections on the floor might be
>beautiful...)
>        I hope this will help you. Please tell me what solution you wil use
>and if possible, send me your image. Thanx in advance
>
>        Stanis
>        [e-mail]

I have the spherical light in the chest and am using IM 2.9. I have noticed
that in scanline the light is as though it were outside the chest and
lights everything. In trace it only shows on the pillars as it should where
the chest is open.

        Two samples exist on compserv.snow.edu in "Lesk's renderings" If
you can FTP go ahead and download them they are called Gazeebo.jpg and
Gazeebo2.jpg.
 I have made two changes since though, 1) Mike McCool explained how to get
the floor to reflect really well (Thanks Mike it's great). and 2) I have
changed the main ground to a peened tarnished pebbled gold. It looks a lot
better but I am still out of fog. I will try playing around with your
suggestions sunday. and Thanks for the Ideas I really appreciate it.

                                        Render Ho!
                                           Lesk





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #234 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 18:53:09 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Gary Beeton, [e-mail])

Recently there has been some talk on the IML about how to
tweak the Amiga's Workbench to scrape a little more render
speed out of Imagine.  I thought I'd try a few of these
suggestions out.  So I set up a simple scene which I used as
my benchmark.  Then I defined a (somewhat arbitrary)
"standard" Workbench configuration from which I could vary
parameters one at a time.  I then rendered the scene using
each Workbench configuration and recorded the render time
reported by clicking the Info button on the Project screen.

During my testing it became apparent that the results were
not quite as ipso facto as I had envisioned.  I discovered
that repeating a rendering using identical configurations
could result in times that differed by as much as +/- 1%
(not a huge difference but enough to make me wonder).  I am
not certain, but I suspect these difference reflect the
thermal stability of the processor and/ or hard drive.  The
times seem to get slower when my computer has been on for
long periods, which suggests to me that the operating
temperature of my system has gradually risen enough to
marginally degrade the performance.  In order to compensate
somewhat, I used average render times in some cases.

Enough rambling...  ...well, not quite.  Before I get to
the results, let me describe my system, the scene I used,
and my "standard" Workbench configuration.

SYSTEM:
 - A4000/040 25MHz, 4M Fast RAM, 2M Chip RAM, 120MHz IDE HD
 - Workbench 3.0
 - Imagine 2.0

SCENE / RENDER METHODS:
 - 2 Objects (one with a chrome attribute), Global Brush
   map, Backdrop Picture
 - Picture size 800x600, Trace Mode, ILBM-24bit, Render
   file size 872772 bytes

STANDARD WORKBENCH CONFIGURATION:
 - NTCS High Res Laced screen, 32 colours
 - Screen Blanker Commodity Inactive
 - Imagine running on the foreground screen


Ok, now on to the results.

Configuration (difference from standard)    | Time to Render
--------------------------------------------|--------------
Standard                                    |   6:56 (avg)
Mode Promotion -DBLNTSC High Res No Flicker |   6:56
NTSC Low Res Workbench                      |   6:56
NTSC Low Res Workbench                      |   6:55
  - WB brought to foreground                |
2 Colour Workbench                          |   6:55
2 Colour Workbench                          |   6:56
  - WB brought to foreground                |
256 Colour Workbench                        |   6:55
256 Colour Workbench                        |   6:55
  - WB brought to foreground                |
Blanker Active                              |   6:56 (avg)
Path For Stills = RAM:                      |   6:25
  - Subprojects, Modify requester           |


Conclusions?  Well, the only difference I can see results
from writing the output file to RAM: instead of to the hard
drive.  Makes sense.  However, I'm not too excited about
this.  The speed saving is proportional to the output file
size, not to the complexity of the scene.  Whether the
scene takes 6 minutes or 6 days to render, the time saving
will still be 30 seconds for similar image sizes.  It also
requires a lot of RAM that I don't have to spare.  But hey,
30 seconds is 30 seconds.

If you have loads of RAM that you don't know what to do
with, you might try setting up your project directory tree
in RAM: (including all your objects, brush/texture maps,
etc).  This should help speed thing up some, particularly
during the Initialization phase.  But saving your project
would be a bitch!

As for all the talk about mode promotion, screen blankers,
and WB bit plane depth, well they don't do much for me.


Gary Beeton "[e-mail]"



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #235 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Lens Flare
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 12:32:04 -0500
From: "PATRICK R. SAUVAGEAU" <[e-mail]>

I   have   just   downloaded   the   lens   flare   object  from  Aminet
(gfx/3dobj/Flare.lha).   This object have been created by Cryto with the
technics  given  in the Amazing Computing article (Feb94).  It looks ok,
but  it  is  not  the  lens  flare  I  was  expecting,  so  I  made some
modifications to make is useable in an animation.

In  a lens flare, the rings are following a line that point to the light
source  and  pass  thru the center of the screen (just watch a Gun's and
Roses  video,  there  are  more  of thoses artifacts than in a LightWave
animation!).

The  first thing I made was deleting the two rings in the object.  Then,
I  created  an object that consist of disks of different sizes.  Each of
those  disks  have a radial texture so they are fully transparent at the
center  and semi-transparent on the edge, with a pale blue-purple color.
Those disks are then placed on a line that follow the Y axis:

Top View:



     ----------------------

              ----

        ----------------

               y
               |
               +-x             <---- parent Axis
      ---------------------


            --------


        ----------------
Y
|
+- X

Note:  All disks X and Z cordinates are identical.

Now,  I  added  an  axis in the center and grouped all the disks to that
axis.   For  the  Lightsource,  I added an axis far in front of the star
object and made it the parent with it's Y axis pointing in the direction
of the star.

In the anim, the star object is placed in all frame in the same position
as  the  camera with tracking on the light source.  The camera track the
disks object and the disk object track the light source.  Make sure that
the star and rings are in front of every other object in all frames.

Et  voila:  Animated lens flare.  The light source may move normaly.  If
the  camera  move,  the  rings  object  must  always be kept at the same
distance  from the camera.  To change alignement of the camera, you have
to move the rings object.

I  will upload some images (jpeg) from an animation with the staging and
all the objects to aminet soon.  Watch for AnimFlare.lha.  The animation
show  a  sunset  from space where the rings fade in and out as the light
come closer to the center of the screen and the star disapear behind the
planet.   You  will  also  get,  as a free gift, an object of the planet
Mars.



Patrick Sauvageau
[e-mail]

(Please forgive my bad english; it's not my native language)



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #236 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Cycles and 2.9 problems
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 19:24:41 PST
From: [e-mail] (David Alan Steiger)

Hello!

    I've just subscribed to this list and I hope you'll forgive me but I
have several questions to put forth.


1.    I have built a cycle object of a walking figure.  It is 17 frames long
(0-16) with a keyframe on the even frame numbers.  The last frame (16) is a
duplicate of the first (0).  The cycle structure is shown below:

    00 .. 02 .. 04 .. 06 .. 08 .. 10 .. 12 .. 14 .. 00

    In the stage editor, the object's existance stretches across 14 frames
(1-14) of the total 15 frames I have set. (The 15th frame is sort of a dummy
 frame.)  I want to be able to make a movie that cycles through frames 1 to 14
and have him walk smoothly.
    The trouble is, I am having difficulty in deciding what the value of
"Number of cycles to perform" should be.  I've experimented with many values.
They all seem to cause the figure to limp.
    Currently, I've set it to be 16/17 (.9412), since this is the length
of the cycle I wish to traverse.  However, this results in a subtle but abrupt
transition from last to first frame.  Maybe its just me.


2.    I have built eight frames of a skirt for the figure to wear while
walking as well.  As far as I know, I have to build a cycle for each, and have
the stage editor morph the cycles.  Do I *really* have to build eight full
cycles of the figure wearing each version of the skirt?


3. (The Doozy)
    I am a registered 2.0 owner.  I upgraded to 2.9 recently.  I excitedly
install this wonderful package and run it.  It *almost* reaches the title
screen but dies.
    I have:
        25mhz A3000 - one meg chip, one meg fast, 50 meg harddrive.
        GVP G-Force 40 28mhz accellerator, two megs 40ns memory.

    I've tried turning off copyback mode.
    I've tried software diabling the board.
    I used snoopdos and it told me nothing.
    I tried it on the stock A3000's in my school's lab.  Runs fine.
    I tried it on my friend's A500!  Runs fine!
    I call Impulse.  Their only suggestion: maybe I need more memory!
    I've got as much as the lab's A3000's and more chip than that 500.

    I can only assume its the card causing the trouble, but Impulse said
that shouldn't be a problem.  Does anyone else out there have any solutions?
What could be so different from 2.0?  That runs just fine.


I'd truly appreciate any help you could throw my way.

Thanks,
Dave


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #237 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Stage Conform to Path
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 23:31:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greetings Imagineers!

I've been playing around with this Conform to Path this in the Stage
(and Action) editor.  This would appear to be a great tool!  Two things,
though:

1) I made a tube that is initially straight.  I want this tube to bend
   and form an arch.  I made a straight, three point path for the first
   frame, and a bent three point path for the last frame.  Had the
   frames morph, and no probs.  Except for one.  Morphing is linear.
   I need the path to go from the first to last frame, and stay the same
   length all the way through (for the points to form a bend instead of
   a straight line).  Is there an easy way to do this??  I'd prefer not
   to make a new path for every frame.  For that, I may as well bend the
   object myself for every frame (although I suppose that takes up more
   Hard Drive space).

2) To make the object attached to the path, you have to add a position
   bar and tack the object to the path.  If you make this bar last the
   length of the animation, the object will traverse the path (like it
   is supposed to).  Great, but not what I wanted.  The only way I can
   think of to stop this from happening is to add a position bar for
   EVERY frame of the animation.  Time for a repetitive action injury:(
   Is there some way to make the object stay with the path (for
   conforming purposes) by just making the position bar last the whole
   length of the animation?  Might this be a good addition to Imagine
   is its not already there, Scott, Mike??

Any ideas?

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]

** Now back to your regularly scheduled rendering...


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #238 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Speed Deamons
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:30:28 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

As Adam said

>The right conditions would be either:
>Running the 4000 without Workbench, or maybe running the PC renderer under
>OS/2, windows won't cut it because the renderer will just "freeze out" the
>rest of the tasks.
>Workbench is great, I won't do without it, but if you want to multitask you
>got to be willing to pay the price in CPU cycles, period.

So why not have an option in Imagine Config which closes Workbench, Sets Forbid(
)
and i think the other is Disable() and steal the processor completely.  This cou
ld
then be used for heavy rendering sessions through the night etc. when you will
not be needing multi-tasking.

Also, what Sys Priority does Imagine default at, winding this up may help.

Rich.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #239 ***************************************:-)

Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:56:45 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

TO quote...

"What are you doing...Dave?"

Unforunately you have discovered a minor problem with Imagine 2.9
You need 2 meg for the PROGRAM meaning you need at least 3 meg but
more if you want to do serious tracing.

But by the sounds of things it isnt memory.

So, not the memory, but dunno what it is.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #240 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine 2.9 bug.
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 12:26:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Kees Pronk <[e-mail]>

Forwarded message:
> From [e-mail] Mon Mar 21 11:03:12 1994
> Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:46:43 +0100
> From: Marc Deinum <[e-mail]>
> Apparently-To: [e-mail]
>
>

This is a message from a "Imagine friend" of mine.  Its about a 2.9 bug....
WOoooOOW...   what else is new?


> OH NO! more bad news...
>
> I have discovered another bug in Imagine 2.9. I don't know if it has been
> reported earlier, I haven't been on the IML that long so....
>
> Location:   detail editor
> Procedure:
> 1. Add a closed path
> 2. Set the mode to 'Edit Path'
> 3. click e.g. the top-most point
> 4. Use the TRANSFORMATION-REQUESTER to move the point 100 units up.
>    (you should be getting a "stretchy egg" for breakfast)
> 5. Now when you go back to the 'Select Objects' mode, ALL you 'point-
>    translation' information IS TOTALLY DISCARDED !!!
>    You can see the original path-lines come back as the were before the
>    'Edit path' mode was chosen!!! (Redraw to be sure)
>
> WHAT'S GOING ON ?
> When you move a point using the 'Mv' gadget or just press the 'M', everything
> is okay when you go back to 'select-points' mode. Meaning: 'you're points are
> saved this time (hooray)'...
>
> WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT ?
> Just edit the path as you would with the transformation-requester. When you're

> finished, select all points, press the 'M' to move & inmediatly hit the space-

> bar to accept the movement.
>
> I haven't totally dived in to this problem, So i don't know if the bug also
> appears when you rotate or scale(??) point from a closed path. Perhaps the
> 'open-path' is also infected. And who know's , Perhaps the stage editor is
> also corrupted at that point (..)
>
> It's just something you and ecspecially IMPULSE should be aware of !
>
>
>     Greetinx from this side of the big sphere ....
>
>     OOO DANNY :(
>     (_) HOLLAND
>
>
>



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #241 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Cycles and 2.9 problems
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 12:05:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Howdy, Dave:
    As far as your limping character walk goes, I saw the problem
    earlier in your post.  If the first and last keyframes of your
    cycle object are identical, the animated cycle WILL stutter as it
    repeats that duplicate(second) keyframe again.  I usually copy the
    first key to the final key, then TwEaK it a little proportionally
    to avoid the stu-stutters,...
   And, I don't know if you are already aware of it, but the cycle objects
   are only remembered for their keyframe positions/alignments/sizes.  That

   is, if your cycle object had four keyframes and you made it  cycle over
   100 frames, you'd have keys interpolated between that range (one at
   frame 1, one at frame 25, 50, 75, and 100, roughly).  Tell me how it
   works out, character animation is something I've only just begun to get
   into.
   wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #242 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Stage Conform to Path
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 12:35:24 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

>
> 1) I made a tube that is initially straight.  I want this tube to bend
>    and form an arch.  I made a straight, three point path for the first

    I'd do this by creating a tube made of several vertical
sections in the detail editor. Make a copy of the tube. Still in the
detail editor I'd create the three point path and conform my tube to
it so that it looked like the arch. I'd then take copied non-bent tube
and scale it to fit between the two endpoints on the arch path.
Transform the alignment and size of the two tubes, one being an arch
th other being flat, and save those two as separate objects. Go into
the stage editor and morph between the two objects using transition
frames...
    Of course, this might not be the desired effect, but it will
morph (automagically) between the flat tube and the bent tube...
>
> 2) To make the object attached to the path, you have to add a position
>    bar and tack the object to the path.  If you make this bar last the
>    length of the animation, the object will traverse the path (like it
>    is supposed to).  Great, but not what I wanted.  The only way I can
>    think of to stop this from happening is to add a position bar for
>    EVERY frame of the animation.  Time for a repetitive action injury:(
>    Is there some way to make the object stay with the path (for
>    conforming purposes) by just making the position bar last the whole
>    length of the animation?  Might this be a good addition to Imagine
>    is its not already there, Scott, Mike??

    See above example which doesn't even involve stage paths...
>
>                                         -Dave
>                                          [e-mail]


    Hope it helps...

                            J.----->

E-Mail: [e-mail]
>











IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #243 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Super72 mode
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 19:31:27 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Cristian Gavazzeni - Sorint)

Hi,
  First I have to thanks everybody who replied to me about DCTV.
I subscribed to the IML few days ago, But I've already noticed that IML
not only involve many Imagine Problems/Workarounds/suggestions , but a lot
of considerations about Amiga hardware features too.

Probably most of the imagineers works  with additional frame buffers,
and very expensive monitors. Unfortunately I bought an A4000 with a
Commodore 1942. I know that this monitor can't display the super72 mode,
but I've heard that there is a workaround for this problem , like modifying
the super72 driver. Could someone give me any help? and if the answer is yes
is there any solution (probably a board) to deinterlace 800x600 ?

Thanks in advance.

Regards.


cristian



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #244 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Cycles and 2.9 problems
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:51:11 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)

Ok, here's the scoop.  In your cycle, you want to go to the last
    key.  Now, go one frame back.  Make it a key.  Now go
    back to the last frame and delete it.  Voila.  The limp
    is caused by Imagine displaying frame 1 and 16 back to back.
And yes, I believe you will need to build 8 animations for the
    skirt cycle.
steveZ
"Oh you kid! 23 skidoo! Heh heh heh!"
               -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #245 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Brushmap Seam Bug
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 11:56:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  It looks like there is a one pixel wide black seam when using Wrap X-Wrap
Z brushmaps in Imagine V2.0 and V2.9.  I thought this was due to not using a
seamless brushmap but it occurs in all cases.  Has anybody else brought this
to the attention of Impulse and recieved any response as to whether it is
fixed in V3.0 or not?
  Also, V2.9 seems to have some bug in the Attributes Filter setting.  I
have taken an object into V2.0, set the Filter to 255,255,255 (totally
transparent) and it renders that way in Quickrender.  I have taken the same
object into V2.9, set the Filter to 255,255,255 and it renders as totally
black (opaque).  Has anybody else experienced this?  This seems to be
related to the multiple brushmap bug also.  If anybody else has experienced
this, have they informed Impulse and, if so, whether it is fixed in V3.0?
  Finally, is anybody compiling a list of known bugs in V2.9 and willing to
post it the list, and whether Impulse has been informed of them, confirmed
them, and fixed them in V3.0? I have seen numerous V2.9 bug reports over the
past few months but haven't confirmed them all myself since some seem
esoteric to me (but may be crucial  to you!).  Impulse has said to fax them
any bugs found and they would take care of them.  I guess I am sitting back
expecting someone else to provide the bug report to Impulse.  Maybe this is
not a good assumption to make.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #246 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Brushmap Seam Bug
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 00:24:01 +0100 (MET)
From: gp178 <[e-mail]>

Hi, all

>
>   It looks like there is a one pixel wide black seam when using Wrap X-Wrap
> Z brushmaps in Imagine V2.0 and V2.9.  I thought this was due to not using a
> seamless brushmap but it occurs in all cases.  Has anybody else brought this
> to the attention of Impulse and recieved any response as to whether it is
> fixed in V3.0 or not?

I tried to render a sphere with a sngle wraped brush, but it no seam appeared.


>   Also, V2.9 seems to have some bug in the Attributes Filter setting.  I
> have taken an object into V2.0, set the Filter to 255,255,255 (totally
> transparent) and it renders that way in Quickrender.  I have taken the same
> object into V2.9, set the Filter to 255,255,255 and it renders as totally
> black (opaque).  Has anybody else experienced this?  This seems to be
> related to the multiple brushmap bug also.  If anybody else has experienced
> this, have they informed Impulse and, if so, whether it is fixed in V3.0?

I also tried to render a transparent sphere (scanline mode) and nothing wrong
happened...

    First of all: What is your configuration ? Have you got enough memory?
Then how many maps do you intend to wrap in your scene (not only on one
object) ? I had reported a bug to Impulse a few weeks ago. The scene was
filled with a formula one car, with all its logos. There were about twelve
to fifteen maps on the group. Depending on the angle of view, and the position
of the brushes, some of them disappeared. I have enough memory to render
so many brush maps. Impulse told me it was because I owned an A4000...
(I would like to know if someone else has the same bug, with or without
A4000...)
    I noticed another bug, with brushmaps, and filtering. To create
leaves, I used three maps on the same plane
    - one for the color,
    - one for the bump (altitude),
    - one for cropping. This last one is a 2 color, black and white image
and was used as a filter map to make external parts of the leaves transparent.
... didn't work :(  The filter map seemed to bug. Was it because there were
other brushes ? Was it because there's actually a bug in Imagine 2.9 ?
    I tried to put the filter map before the color brush, the bump after,
and so on, but nothig worked properly...
    So, there seem to be a complex bug about brush maps, or this is only
a matter of computer (this works on an A2000, but not on an A4000, or a PC??)

Should anybody tell me about it ...

>   Finally, is anybody compiling a list of known bugs in V2.9 and willing to
> post it the list, and whether Impulse has been informed of them, confirmed
> them, and fixed them in V3.0? I have seen numerous V2.9 bug reports over the
> past few months but haven't confirmed them all myself since some seem
> esoteric to me (but may be crucial  to you!).  Impulse has said to fax them
> any bugs found and they would take care of them.  I guess I am sitting back
> expecting someone else to provide the bug report to Impulse.  Maybe this is
> not a good assumption to make.
>

... maybe not, but it's a very good idea !

    Stanis
    [e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #247 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Stage Conform to Path...
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 18:39:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Hi Jeffery!

> I'd do this by creating a tube made of several vertical
>sections in the detail editor. Make a copy of the tube. Still in the
>detail editor I'd create the three point path and conform my tube to
>it so that it looked like the arch. I'd then take copied non-bent tube
>and scale it to fit between the two endpoints on the arch path.
>Transform the alignment and size of the two tubes, one being an arch
>th other being flat, and save those two as separate objects. Go into
>the stage editor and morph between the two objects using transition
>frames...
> Of course, this might not be the desired effect, but it will
>morph (automagically) between the flat tube and the bent tube...

I'm not sure that I fully understand.  It would seem that the tube would
change length and size during the morph.  Also, I believe that it will
not bend.  The effect I'm looking for is like a metal rod bending.  But
thanx for the suggestion!
BTW, I'm also using a multisegmented tube...

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #248 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Cycles and 2.9 problems
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 18:49:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greetings Imagineers!

In reply to: [e-mail]
> As far as your limping character walk goes, I saw the problem
> earlier in your post.  If the first and last keyframes of your
> cycle object are identical, the animated cycle WILL stutter as it
> repeats that duplicate(second) keyframe again.  I usually copy the
> first key to the final key, then TwEaK it a little proportionally
> to avoid the stu-stutters,...

You've got the right idea for correcting Dave's (no relation) problem,
but I may have possibly a simpler way to correct the stuutering problem
(aka, the Porky Pig syndrome).

For your last keyframe, copy the first key frame to the end.  Then go
back one frame.  Not back one key frame, but back one regular frame (ie:
if you have a 20 frame cycle, with keys every even frame, go to frame
19).  This frame will be a perfect interpolation between the last frame
(which is your copied first frame) and the key frame before it.  Now
make this frame (which is not currently a key frame) into a key frame by
choosing, if I remember correctly, MAKE KEYFRAME from a menu.  I believe
that an asterix will now appear in the window title beside the frame
number.  Got all that?

Now for the final trick: go to the last frame and delete it.  Don't just
unmake the key frame, but get rid of that frame (it's somewhere in the
menus).  You should now have a cycle that will cycle and not studder.
Go ahead and test animate it in the Cycle animator.

Hope this all helps!

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #249 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 23:56:23 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Gary Beeton, [e-mail])

> How about putting an entry in where the Priority of Imagine is set to 20
> insted of 0 (default). I think you will find a marked improvement on the
> figures that have been sent.

Good idea!  During the previous test the highest priority task I had running
was at 1.  I made sure that I did nothing that might interupt Imagine, but I
didn't change Imagine's task priority from the default of 0.

So I ran the test again, once with Imagine's priority set to 5, and once
with it set to 20 as you suggested.  The reason I ran a test at 5 is because
of a line in the AmigaDOS manual which reads "However, do not enter values
above +10, or you may disrupt important system tasks".

The results?  With priority set to 5 the results were identical to the
default setting (priority 0).  With priority set to 20 the results were 22
seconds _SLOWER_!!!  Appearently I must have been disrupting important
system tasks :-(

Gary
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #250 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Rendering Speed
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:09:46 +0100
From: "Robin Chytil" <[e-mail]>

On Mar 21, 11:04am, Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL wrote:
>   The 2-bit screen to front speed-up only works with ECS machines.
> I can confirm this one as I have an A2000.  Also, since I have
> a EGS Spectrum I can run a 800x600 256 color Workbench without slowing
> down Imagine running in the background since the Amiga's ECS chips are
> not being used for this display.

I tried the program uploaded to Aminet, that displays a black 2-bit (even 1 bit
?) screen, to speed up rendering.
To be sure whether it was useful to use it, I tried it on a 6-8 hours per frame
rendering time animation (takes several months to render).

YES, I NOTICED A DIFFERENCE :

on an image, I had once 6h56 and with the BlackScreen 6h53 : 3 minutes better
(trace).

MEANS 0.7 % better. Nothing. Not useful (at least with trace mode).

On my 200 images @ 7 hours (i.e. 1400 hours=59 days), the rendering time will
be 10 hours shorter. Negligible.

So please stop saying that ECS display takes CPU cycles. Yes, it does, but 0.7%
is nothing.

And when I see comparisons between 2.0 and 2.9 rendering time, like 2'21
instead of 2'40, I think it's not a valid point from a scientific point of
view.
Some friends of mine did some tests (maybe wrong) on 1 or two hours, and
tracing
was longer with 2.9 on the same scene. I have no figures, sorry, but I would
like to hear more about rendering times, with REAL tests.

Robin



--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #251 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Brushmap Seam Bug
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:14:24 +0100
From: "Robin Chytil" <[e-mail]>

On Mar 21, 11:56am, Stethem Ted              5721 wrote:
> Subject: Brushmap Seam Bug
>
>   It looks like there is a one pixel wide black seam when using Wrap X-Wrap
> Z brushmaps in Imagine V2.0 and V2.9.  I thought this was due to not using a
> seamless brushmap but it occurs in all cases.  Has anybody else brought this
> to the attention of Impulse and recieved any response as to whether it is
> fixed in V3.0 or not?

Where does this brush come from. If you are usinf TVPaint 1.8, note that every
brush you save is a multiple of 8 large : so if you save a 254 pixel lage
brush, TVPaint will add 2 black pixels. I had this problems, so I had to crop
it with ADPro.
Now I have TVPaint 2.0, but I never checker that bug.

Robin

--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #252 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 2.9's memory needs :(
Date: 22 Mar 1994 11:43:43 +0000
From: "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>

I thought I'd try a little experiment in 2.9 last night to test out brush
tacking.  I made a disk into the shape of a credit card (I used a disk so I
could get the rounded corners of the card by moving/scaling groups of points).
With the object selected, I tried to open the Attributes requester, but I got
something like 'Not enough memory error'.  I checked how much free memory I'd
got...18.5MB.  I give up with 2.9.  Roll on 3.0.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #253 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Need Foust's Address
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 8:03:53 EST
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)

> I know John Foust is listening out there somewhere.  I need his email
> address to get upgrade details.

John Foust can be reached on CompuServe by sending mail to:

                   [e-mail]


srp


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #254 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Brush maps on Pc....
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 06:10:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy White <[e-mail]>

Does anyone have any good reccommendations for a good 2D art program for
the IBM version of Imagine?  I use Dpaint II, but it doesnt sort the
pallette correctally (for using the maps to do clipping, etc...)  The
pallette registers get shifted around.

Thanks, Jeremy White



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #255 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Magnetic Points
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:02:49 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)

        Hello all,
 Recently I've been trying to drag points magnetically from the interior of
an object i.e. plane perpendicular to the surface. I have the magnetic
setting set to dome. If I load a primative plane and try to pick a point to
drag perpendicular to the plane, I'm not sure how to do it. If in the front
view I pick a point in the center of the plane, which becomes highlighted
and starts to be dragged, it is not being dragged perpendicular to the
plane (y axis). If I hit "undo" immediately the point remains highlighted
and I think AHAH! now I'll just go to the top view, grab that sucker and
drag it along the Y axis but, when I start dragging I see that the
highlighted point has changed to a point along the edge of the plane and
I'm not getting my hoped for dome in the middle. I've also tried picking a
point in the front view, moving to the top view, selecting "move" from the
bottom menu bar and dragging it along the Y axis just far enough to bring
it above the surface so it can be grabbed for magnetic dragging but, the
shape of the dome is already deformed by my having "moved" it prior to
changing to the magnetic drag mode. What I am trying must be possible! Does
someone out their have a solution to this problem. The effect I'm trying
for is alot of domes protruding from the surface of a plane.
                                Thanks in advance,

To Ted Stethem, I tried to respond to your email but, was rejected at your
sight! Did you ever create your nebula effect?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        JUST SAY NO, TO GUNS!!!

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #256 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Foggies....
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:33:57 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

Hello imagineers, Cheers!
        Well my results have been less than successful, however here is
what I have found out.

        I understand now that fog is merely an attribute setting of an object.
and is not an abstract form as I thought it was. I tried a cube ranging
from 7.0 to 1000 on the scale and there was little significant difference
in scanline. I then added a cone object and made it foggy but made the cube
less foggy than the cone. The cone I made Blue, and the cube I made a lime
green. I then placed the cone inside the cube with both ends protruding the
cube. Then I added a light source, cylinder and blue. I pointed the light
down the cone ( I actually added the light first but got no result, the
light did not discolor the fog cube in any way). what I got really looked
pretty stupid! where the cone protruded from the cube showed a green disk
like thing and the cone through the cube just looked like it was overlaid
on a 2d picture and did not look as though it pierced the fog at all. I
reversed the fog settings and made the cube more foggy than the cone
BLAHHH! same thing El yukko! about the only good thing I found is that
using fog settings makes a good lazer effect and when the fireball texture
is applied it is quite stunning (laughter here would be good).
        I did not play with global fog yet, but I don't want the whole
scene foggy. I only wanted a small peircing colorized effect coming out of
the chest as it opened with various rays of colored light shooting out. Oh
well I guess I'll have to get someone with real3d to finish this project, I
hear it has something like seven or eight different kinds of fog.....


                                                Render Ho!
                                                  Lesk

P.S. To those fussing about render speeds and scientific eveluations of
screen blankers and time savers etc.. Go read the IML archive from last
summer 36-40 it was hashed quite thouruoghly back then. I would really like
to hear something new myself, please please please.......




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #257 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  2.9's memory needs :(
Date:     Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:03:06 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>With the object selected, I tried to open the Attributes requester, but I got
>something like 'Not enough memory error'.  I checked how much free memory I'd
>got...18.5MB.  I give up with 2.9.  Roll on 3.0

How much chip RAM do you have available?  Even though you have 18+ total,
Imagine requires chip RAM to open requesters and such.  If there wasn't
enough chip RAM then it would't be able to open the attr requester.  To
save chip you may want to drop WB down to 2 colour, lowest res and kill
any other screens opened.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #258 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE:  2.9's memory needs :(
Date: 22 Mar 1994 17:10:00 +0000
From: "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>

>How much chip RAM do you have available?  Even though you have 18+ total,
>Imagine requires chip RAM to open requesters and such.  If there wasn't
>enough chip RAM then it would't be able to open the attr requester.  To
>save chip you may want to drop WB down to 2 colour, lowest res and kill
>any other screens opened.

I had about 700K free.  The same operation in 2.0 works perfectly.  Thanks for
the reminder though :)

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #259 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Magnetic Points
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 14:40:57 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

>
>         Hello all,
>  Recently I've been trying to drag points magnetically from the interior of
> an object i.e. plane perpendicular to the surface. I have the magnetic
> setting set to dome. If I load a primative plane and try to pick a point to
> drag perpendicular to the plane, I'm not sure how to do it. If in the front
> view I pick a point in the center of the plane, which becomes highlighted
> and starts to be dragged, it is not being dragged perpendicular to the
> plane (y axis). If I hit "undo" immediately the point remains highlighted
> and I think AHAH! now I'll just go to the top view, grab that sucker and
> drag it along the Y axis but, when I start dragging I see that the
> highlighted point has changed to a point along the edge of the plane and
> I'm not getting my hoped for dome in the middle. I've also tried picking a
> point in the front view, moving to the top view, selecting "move" from the
> bottom menu bar and dragging it along the Y axis just far enough to bring
> it above the surface so it can be grabbed for magnetic dragging but, the
> shape of the dome is already deformed by my having "moved" it prior to
> changing to the magnetic drag mode. What I am trying must be possible! Does
> someone out their have a solution to this problem. The effect I'm trying
> for is alot of domes protruding from the surface of a plane.
>                                 Thanks in advance,
>


    Yeah... This one's actually pretty easy. To do what you want
to do you must use the shift key when selecting the point you want to
manipulate (oh yeah, you want to be in drag points). Basically click
on the point once while holding the shift key down and it will
highlight. You can then shift to any view and while holding the shift
key and left mousebutton down move the mousepointer to the location
you want the point to finally be.  When you release the shift key
(still holding the left MB down) the point will jump to the cursor
location. You can then mess (drag) with the point as normal.
    The interesting thing about this is that you can multiple
select points (while holding shift) and then magnetically affect all
of the selected points at once. The points all move relative to the
first point selected and the location of the cursor.
    So to do the domes protruding from a surface (if they're all
supposed to be the same) you can while holding the shift key down in
'facing the plane view' select all the vertex points of the various
domes. You then move to a parallel to the plane view and while holding
the shift key down press and hold the left MB. Then release the shift
key and move the vertex's into place. It's that simple...
    This multiple point manipulation is great for doing something
like a ridge or valley.
    Experiment with it. It gets a little getting used to. Hope it
helps...

    One thing that I've always had a problem with is manipulating
a magnetically dragged point in three directions. One direction is
easy, simply click and drag. Two requires the use of shift as
explained above. Three directions can't be done that way. Once you
release shift you can't use it again in that operation. Anyone have
any clues?  I've been rotating my objects before manipulation of the
points in order to get the third direction. That can sometimes be a
pain because it turns into a guesstimate of sorts...

                            J.---->

E-Mail: [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #260 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Pic conversion
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:20:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>

Well, as you may or may not know, Brilliance produces pix that Imagine can't
load.  I received many responses to my query a few months back on how to do
this, most of which were "get AdPro or ImageFX."

I've found a cheaper, if less successful, solution that I wanted to share.

1. Rend24 can take TrueBrilliance output and convert it to something Imagine
(2.0, btw) can handle.  But only up to 32 colors.  Why?  I don't know.

2. MainActor can take Brilliance (TrueBrilliance?  I forget) output and convert
it to a full 24-bit IFF that Imagine loves.  Only catch is it can't do a brush,
only a full pic.

Does anyone know why Rend24 output greater than 5 planes screws Imagine up?

Rob Freundlich, Senior Software Engineer|Some folks you don't have to satirize,
IDX Systems Corporation                 |you just quote 'em.       - Tom Paxton
Amiga 4000/40    GCS d@ p-(--) c++ (!)l u@ e- m+ s-/+ n- h-- f? g- w+ t++ r- y+
Standard Disclaimer applies, except where (void)||(prohibited) by law


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #261 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE:  2.9's memory needs :(
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 14:00:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

You somehow produced a bad edge in your model, at least as far as V2.9
thinks.  I have had the same thing happen with several of my objects.  They
were working OK in V2.0 but V2.9 was giving me the same error message that
you got.  You can inspect the object and you will probably find that there
actually is a bad edge (try choosing Solid in the Detail editor; the bad
edge will show up as a line or lines going off to infinity), or you can fix
it, as far as V2.9 is concerned, by using Merge.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: IML
Subject: RE:  2.9's memory needs :(
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 1994 5:10PM

>How much chip RAM do you have available?  Even though you have 18+ total,
>Imagine requires chip RAM to open requesters and such.  If there wasn't
>enough chip RAM then it would't be able to open the attr requester.  To
>save chip you may want to drop WB down to 2 colour, lowest res and kill
>any other screens opened.

I had about 700K free.  The same operation in 2.0 works perfectly.  Thanks
for
the reminder though :)

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #262 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re:  Magnetic Points
Date:     Tue, 22 Mar 1994 18:10:14 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

You must use the 'multi-select' trick to do what you want.  In the top
view, holding the shift-key in, click on the center point of your plane.
Now release the mousebutton but keep the SHIFT pressed.  Go to the front
view and click the left-mouse button somewhere above your plane in empty
space.  Now release the SHIFT key and you can magnetically drag your
dome up & down.  In essence what you are doing is just giving yourself a
new handle for moving the dragged points around.

Jason k
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #263 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Rendering Speed
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 19:14:43 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>

>I tried the program uploaded to Aminet, that displays a black 2-bit (even 1 bit

>?) screen, to speed up rendering.
>To be sure whether it was useful to use it, I tried it on a 6-8 hours per frame

>rendering time animation (takes several months to render).
>
>YES, I NOTICED A DIFFERENCE :
>
>on an image, I had once 6h56 and with the BlackScreen 6h53 : 3 minutes better
>(trace).
>
>MEANS 0.7 % better. Nothing. Not useful (at least with trace mode).
>
>On my 200 images @ 7 hours (i.e. 1400 hours=59 days), the rendering time will
>be 10 hours shorter. Negligible.
>
>So please stop saying that ECS display takes CPU cycles. Yes, it does, but 0.7%

>is nothing.
>
>Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
>Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389

  You don't mention what your hardware configuration is but it is a fact
that ECS amigas will slow down when the display hardware is pushed to the
limits.  For example:

  I just rendered a scene in scanline mode, multiple light sources, and
a 500KB human figure object that I am working on with the following
results:

  With the Imagine Project Screen @ 720x480 - 16 color screen to the
front the frame rendered in 7 min. 27 sec.  When I rendered the same
scene with a 320x200 - 2 color screen to front the frame rendered in
6 min. 45 sec.  That is a full 10.4% speed increase which is definitely not
an insignificant amount.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #264 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE:  2.9's memory needs :(
Date:     Wed, 23 Mar 1994 01:44:46 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

>You somehow produced a bad edge in your model, at least as far as V2.9
....
>you can fix it, as far as V2.9 is concerned, by using Merge.


I'v found that Merge in 2.0 will often produce bad edges for some reason.
In some cases lines will jut out to infinity, in others there are lines
everywhere.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #265 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Rendering Speed
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 09:52:30 +0100
From: "Robin Chytil" <[e-mail]>

> >I tried the program uploaded to Aminet, that displays a black 2-bit (even 1
bit
> >?) screen, to speed up rendering.
> >on an image, I had once 6h56 and with the BlackScreen 6h53 : 3 minutes
better
> >(trace).
> >
> >MEANS 0.7 % better. Nothing. Not useful (at least with trace mode).
>
>   You don't mention what your hardware configuration is but it is a fact
> that ECS amigas will slow down when the display hardware is pushed to the
> limits.  For example:
>
>   I just rendered a scene in scanline mode, multiple light sources, and
> a 500KB human figure object that I am working on with the following
> results:
>
>   With the Imagine Project Screen @ 720x480 - 16 color screen to the
> front the frame rendered in 7 min. 27 sec.  When I rendered the same
> scene with a 320x200 - 2 color screen to front the frame rendered in
> 6 min. 45 sec.  That is a full 10.4% speed increase which is definitely not
> an insignificant amount.
>
OK, you're right.
I actually use an Amiga 3000 with a GVP GForce'040.
So this trick works better with some h/w than other.

Thank you to provide us with real result.

Robin

--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #266 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Reflectivity and Reflection mapping in Imagine 2.9
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 00:03:33 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

Has anyone noticed that Imagine 2.9 has 1 more type of Brushmap
application ?
There is now both Reflection and Reflectivity (as well as color, altitude
and Filter).

This is however, not documented in the 2.9 'manual'.

I haven't fully tested this, but does this mean that each object can
reflect a different image ?

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #267 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Reflectivity and Reflection mapping in Imagine 2.9
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 17:46:03 +0100 (MET)
From: gp178 <[e-mail]>

>
>
> Has anyone noticed that Imagine 2.9 has 1 more type of Brushmap
> application ?
> There is now both Reflection and Reflectivity (as well as color, altitude
> and Filter).
>
> This is however, not documented in the 2.9 'manual'.
>
> I haven't fully tested this, but does this mean that each object can
> reflect a different image ?
>
> Nik.
>
>

    Hi, all
I noticed this too, so I tried those features. Reflectivity is the old flag
for Reflection (in Imagine 2.9). It just applies a reflection brush map on
your object. Reflection is new: It's a kind of "global reflection brush
mapping". When this flag is selected, the image can only be "wrap-x wrap-z"
In fact, the brush you select will be applied if there is a reflection color
different from black. For example, create a spere, set the texture Metal, with
a chrome effect, and a sky image as reflection brush map. The sky will reflect
in your sphere. It looks like reflection mapping used to simulate reflections
in non-raytracing modes, or the environment reflection brush in 3DStudio.

    I'm not quite sure about it, and might be wrong. If so, tell me...

    I would also like to give a suggestion to Impulse. Is it possible
to calculate the brush before applying it on the objects to simulate
reflections in scanline mode ? It might stay faster than ray tracing ...

    Stanis
    [e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #268 ***************************************:-)

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 15:30:09 GMT
From: [e-mail] (MR. R.L.COLLIER)

OK then, why dont you suggest the addition of an option in the imagine prefs
which calls the Disable() and Forbid(), grabbing the CPU for long render
periods.

Rich.

PS. I have said this before in responce to the Amiga<->PC speed argument but
feel this would be a useful addition.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #269 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Magnetic Points Accomplished!
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 08:02:01 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)

        To all,
       Thanks for all the response to my inquirey yesterday regarding
dragging points magnetically perpendicular to a plane. The method that
worked was holding down the shift key when picking the point and moving to
another view while still holding the key down and then pushing down the
Left mouse button to reestablish the "handle" location. The nice thing
about this is one is indeed able to multi pick points and raise or lower
all of them at once the same distance from the planes surface. I got some
neat effects by then picking the faces of the protrusions, splitting them
from the rest of the plane, and conforming them to a cylinder.
                                Thanks again!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        JUST SAY NO, TO GUNS!!!

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #270 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re[2]: Cycles and 2.9 problems
Date: 23 Mar 94 07:21:00 -0800
From: [e-mail]

I see no need to go through the steps outlined below.  I've never had
     a problem with stuttering cycles.  For example this weekend I
     created a 100 frame juggling cycle object with the first and last
     key frame equal.  Then I loaded it in a 300 frame stage and set
     the number of cycles to 3.  Rendered and animated with no
     problems.  Perhaps there is something else I'm doing to correct
     the problem but I can't think of any special step.

     Ed
***********
[include]
Greetings Imagineers!

In reply to: [e-mail]
> As far as your limping character walk goes, I saw the problem
> earlier in your post.  If the first and last keyframes of your
> cycle object are identical, the animated cycle WILL stutter as it
> repeats that duplicate(second) keyframe again.  I usually copy the
> first key to the final key, then TwEaK it a little proportionally
> to avoid the stu-stutters,...

You've got the right idea for correcting Dave's (no relation) problem,
but I may have possibly a simpler way to correct the stuutering problem
(aka, the Porky Pig syndrome).

For your last keyframe, copy the first key frame to the end.  Then go
back one frame.  Not back one key frame, but back one regular frame (ie:
if you have a 20 frame cycle, with keys every even frame, go to frame
19).  This frame will be a perfect interpolation between the last frame
(which is your copied first frame) and the key frame before it.  Now
make this frame (which is not currently a key frame) into a key frame by
choosing, if I remember correctly, MAKE KEYFRAME from a menu.  I believe
that an asterix will now appear in the window title beside the frame
number.  Got all that?

Now for the final trick: go to the last frame and delete it.  Don't just
unmake the key frame, but get rid of that frame (it's somewhere in the
menus).  You should now have a cycle that will cycle and not studder.
Go ahead and test animate it in the Cycle animator.

Hope this all helps!

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]

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>Subject: Re: Cycles and 2.9 problems
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>Message-Id: <60.2786.58
>Date: Mon, 21 M
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>X-CCaddr: Bcc: ed totma
>X-CCaddr: *To:


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #271 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Renderings
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:19:50 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>        Lesk, Just a quick note. I really like the idea of being able to
>see what you have been rendering. It's nice to be able to download your
>stuff during the day to view when I'm on brake here at work. I hope you
>will continue to put your pics in that directory. I hope you don't mind if
>on occasion I ask you some questions regarding them. I am using a shareware
>utility on my MacII here at work to view them call GraphicsConverter so,
>I'm not sure I'm seeing them at their best, I plan to take some home this
>weekend to view them in Imagemaster.
>Unfortunatly, my monitor ( Commodore 1084) just started working
>intermittently last weekend so, its a hit or miss process until I can buy a
>new one. I am using a black and white one as a backup though.
>                                Well, keep those pics coming,
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>        JUST SAY NO, TO GUNS!!!
>
>Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]
>
>13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
>Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]

Thanks For the reply Brad, and yes I will be happy to respond. I Do not
consider myself a real artist by any means. I started with this to do an
evaluation and have become an imaginaddict.....

As to quality I bought HamLabPlus but it seems limited to ham for
conversion and I do loose quite a bit in converting my images even though
it is a very powerful package. I hope there will be a aga version soon.


                                                Render Ho!
                                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #272 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Magnetic Points Accomplished!
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:24:25 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>

>dragging points magnetically perpendicular to a plane. The method that
>worked was holding down the shift key when picking the point and moving to
>another view while still holding the key down and then pushing down the
>Left mouse button to reestablish the "handle" location. The nice thing
>about this is one is indeed able to multi pick points and raise or lower
>all of them at once the same distance from the planes surface. I got some

  I too am thrilled to learn of the above "trick".  I wish I had known
this a year ago.  I would generally pick the point in one view and move
it far out of the way so I could grab the same point in another view.
Of course this didn't work with magnetism because proximity to other
points is important then.

>        JUST SAY NO, TO GUNS!!!

Being inanimate objects, they may not listen ;-)

Remember guns don't kill people, loss of blood generally does.
Say no to the shedding of blood!



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #273 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Renderings
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:18:31 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At 10:19 AM 3/23/94 -0700, Lesk wrote:

>As to quality I bought HamLabPlus but it seems limited to ham for
>conversion and I do loose quite a bit in converting my images even though
>it is a very powerful package. I hope there will be a aga version soon.

HamLabPlus is also supposed to do a nice job of converting stills to
PCHG format, which is viewable using Mostra.  From the samples I've seen,
it can provide stunning hi-res image quality on a non-AGA machine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #274 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Thanks and more Cycle probs
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 15:28:05 PST
From: [e-mail] (David Alan Steiger)

Hello,

    I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my letter.

    As for Imagine 2.9, I found out through one of my instructors here
that the lab machines I tested it on do indeed have more fast ram than I.
So the common thread is fast memory.  Oops!  Sorry about that. :^\
    Now to get my hands on some cheap static column zips! ;^)

    The cycle problem isn't answered so easily.  Many responded by saying
that since the first and last frames are identical, I am geting a lag that
way.  I realize this and took steps to avoid it by setting the "Number of
cycles to perform" to something less than 1.0000.
    Others had mentioned going into the cycle editor and making the next
to last cycle frame a key and deleting the last key.  Again, I realize this.
This will not work.  Its more complicated than that.  Here's why:

    I have a cycle with nine keyframes:

    00 .. 02 .. 04 .. 06 .. 08 .. 10 .. 12 .. 14 .. 16

    There are eight keyframes describing the motion; keyframes 00 and 16
are identical.  Since there are eight keyframes, the difference between any
two keyframes is 1/8th the total cycle.  As I have set the keyframes to the
even numbers, the difference between any two frames is 1/16th.  If I make
frame 15 a keyframe, then the space between 14 and 15 is forced to be this
1/16th.
    Now, my Stage extends only *14* frames.  If I left everything alone,
I would get a full cycle through 14 frames, the first image being identical
with the last, causing a pause in the animation.
    The point is, since the length is 14 frames, the difference between
any two frames is no longer 1/16th, its 1/14th.  Each image 'x' would be an
interpolated figure that is x/14th of the total cycle length.

    If I lock frame 15 the animation, this last keyframe would still have
a difference of 1/16th from the first.  The motion would (and does) look like
this:

... 12 13 14   01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14   01 02 03 04 ...

    Notice the little hiccups between 14 and 01.  He "pops" too quickly
from image 14 to 01.  The other image transitions are smoother.
    What I did was to preserve the 16th identical keyframe so
interpolated frames 14<x<16 will still approach the correct position.  Now,
the trick is to find out what percentage of the cycle I should play via
"Number of cycles to perform", in order to avoid the popping and the lagging.

    Sigh.  I didn't expect this letter to be this long or complicated.
If you're curious, this is being used for a game my friend and I are
creating.  Otherwise, I'd throw out some frames to show what I mean.

    Anyway, thanks for listening, thanks for the help.  If you have any
more ideas I'd love to hear them.

Dave


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #275 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Renderings
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 17:40:04 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>At 10:19 AM 3/23/94 -0700, Lesk wrote:
>
>>As to quality I bought HamLabPlus but it seems limited to ham for
>>conversion and I do loose quite a bit in converting my images even though
>>it is a very powerful package. I hope there will be a aga version soon.
>
>HamLabPlus is also supposed to do a nice job of converting stills to
>PCHG format, which is viewable using Mostra.  From the samples I've seen,
>it can provide stunning hi-res image quality on a non-AGA machine.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
> Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Kent That is really true, However many of my friends have Mac's or PC's
and jpeg was the only comman choice I knew of. I would have gone with GIF
but HamLab does not seem to have that option. If someone has a real liking
for any of my renderings and if I can find the original I would be willing
on request to put out the IFF24 version. They are however quite large.


                                Render Ho!
                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #276 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: Cycle probs
Date:          Thu, 24 Mar 1994 13:21:37 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

Dave

I have not used the cycle editor so it may have its advantages but have you
thought of using states (V2.9) rather than the cycles ?

Cheers Paul.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #277 ***************************************:-)

Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 10:20 HIV
From: [e-mail]

HI THERE !!!

I'll try to make it as short as possible.

I just want to ask two little quetions :

    - What is the best way to create human figures ?
          I have tried the Forms Editor but I am not satisfied
      because the figure doesn't look realistic and I have
      tried creating a sphere, than destroying one half
      and modeling it with the Magnetism options but
      sometimes it works prett well and some others it's CHAOS.
      Any advice would be helpfull.

    - With the State option in IMAGINE 2.9, is there any way
      to morph a Texture into an other one ?
      I am trying to morph th disk of a floppy disk into
      the rings of Saturn ...


            Thank you for your attention.

PS: does anybody know if there will be other rendering modes
    in IMAGINE 3.0 (Like shadowmap for example).


                    J-C

                [e-mail]










IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #278 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Reflectivity and Reflection mapping in Imagine 2.9
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 23:55:30 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On 23 Mar 1994, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

> You are correct, sir. Reflection mapping allows individual reflection maps
> for each object.  Reflectivity uses a gray-scale map to determine where and
> how much to reflect.
> --Rick Rodriguez
>
>
Great! It was actually a friend's discovery, but I thought I'd better ask
since it still wasn't giving me exactly what I expected. I thought that
they were the other way around you see.

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #279 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Speeding up Imagine
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 07:26:51 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

>   Calling the Forbid() function won't speed up Imagine.  Not only is this
> not system friendly but would probablly crash the operating system if
> you didn't call Permit() within a few microseconds.

Jeff has a good point.  AmigaDos depends heavily on inter-task
communication (inter-task message passing, for example).  It manages to
do this *extremely* efficiently; much more so than Unix, OS/2, NT, etc.

Personally, I just run Imagine at a priority of -25, and make sure not
to run cycle-wasting programs like screen blankers.  That way, I can
still use the computer interactively in a normal manner (telecom, word
processing, text editing, etc) while rendering.  When I'm not sitting
there doing things, Imagine will get all the cycles.  There is *very*
little overhead to this under AmigaDos.  It has less overhead in an
absolute sense than Unix systems with CPUs which are 8 times as fast as
a 68040.  Unless you have some other process wasting time in the
foreground (clocks, screen blankers), you'll be fine.  Doing a Forbid()
is a bad idea for many reasons.  If you want that effect, just raise the
priority of Imagine to 5 or so (more than your "normal" processes like
screen blankers and clocks).  That'll have the same effect and be much
more friendly.  But its a bad idea to run with a priority greater than
things like the tasks that handle disk I/O.  Generally stick to the
range of -255 to +5.

> allow the user to close the Workbench.  This probablly would not
> speed things up at all but it would save memory. :-)

Similarly, I'd like to be able to iconify Imagine's screen (either
during rendering or just when it was idle).  Many other programs now
support iconification of screens (ImageFX, term 3.1, Vertex, etc).
Helps to save memory.  If Imagine is going to be rendering for the next
three days, there is little point in it having a bitmap allocated for
its screen that whole time.  I'm also willing to help Impulse figure how
to properly iconify screens (I happen to know how to do it properly).

  - steve


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #280 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Renderings
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:46:55 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>
>What attributes did you use for the bubble in "Ship in a Bubble" or
>whatever it's called?  It looked great!
>

Tarrific fantastic and a most enlightened question.......


Now here is where we see the real value of this IML.

Soren Wind put the basis of this buble out here on the IML and this is how
I used them (Thanks Soren).

Color     Reflect        Filter       Specular
R 250      10             192           255
G 215      10             162           245
B 255      10             133           238

Dithering Hardness Roughness Shiness Index of refraction
   0      245 less   0          0            1.08

Than add pastella with the following settings
102.333374              100.00
0.0                     0.0
255.0                   255
0.0                     180
100.0                   80
0.0                     110
255.0                   0.0
100.0                   0.0


I did make some modifactions but not much. you may come up with something
much better. Have fun and again I thank the artists here on the IML.


                                                Render Ho!
                                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #281 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Thanks and more Cycle probs
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 09:57:15 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

>     I have a cycle with nine keyframes:
>
>     00 .. 02 .. 04 .. 06 .. 08 .. 10 .. 12 .. 14 .. 16
>
>     There are eight keyframes describing the motion; keyframes 00 and 16
> are identical.  Since there are eight keyframes, the difference between any
> two keyframes is 1/8th the total cycle.  As I have set the keyframes to the
> even numbers, the difference between any two frames is 1/16th.  If I make
> frame 15 a keyframe, then the space between 14 and 15 is forced to be this
> 1/16th.

Start off with 1 more frame so that your last keyframe is frame 17.  Make
16 a keyframe and delete 17.  Voila.

>     Now, my Stage extends only *14* frames.  If I left everything alone,
> I would get a full cycle through 14 frames, the first image being identical
> with the last, causing a pause in the animation.

Not sure I understand why you would create a cycle object and then only use
it through one cycle, and even stranger, through less Stage frames than
cycle frames, but....I'm sure stranger things have been done;)  And I sure
you have your reasons.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #282 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3D Object Digitizer
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 08:24:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  If you haven't already, you should check out the Vertisketch demo disk on
aminet, called vs_demo.  It is a sample disk from a company that produces a
3D digitizing software package to create Lightwave objects, I believe.
 There are a few digitized objects included and the digitized human hand is
really awesome.  There is no price mentioned in the readme file and it
appears the package is designed to use several digitizing sensors.  The
readme file talks about some ultrasonic sensors and the following message
from the Lightwave Mailing List indicates the use of some magnetic sensor:

A good friend of mine was beta testing the vertisketch software.  He used a
Poluhemus(sp?) magnetic digitizer.  I helped him and also did a little
digitizing myself.  It's really not nearly as hard as you would think.  You
don't have to grid off the object to a high level of detail; you just draw a
spline cage around your object.  Then you digitize each set of points for
each
spline, one at a time.  After you've gotten all the splines off of the
model,
you connect the intersections in modeler and then patch the splines.  It
works
very, very well.  We digitized a model raptor that he had assembled and it
took
us about three nights to do everything to arrive at the final raptor model
in
the computer and it looks really good.  He sent the rendering to VTU; it
might
be in their portfolio section.
  If you subscribe to Lightwave Pro, my friend wrote a review for that
newsletter and it should be out in a couple of months.
                   --- The LightWave 3D Mailing List ---
Articles to:   [e-mail]         |  The NEW Graphics BBS
Requests to:   [e-mail] |    +1 908/469-0049
Administrivia: [e-mail]   | 14.4K V.32bis Multi-line


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #283 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: FOG & the blues
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 10:32:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike McCool <[e-mail]>

Thanks, Nik, for your post encouraging me to post it out in the open.
I'm ALWAYS asking for this very thing, I realize, when I see someone post
an interesting question.  I end up responding to their query, and then
urging them to post me back any responses to their problem, since I have
a similar one.  It's like there's another, secret IML, going on behind
the scenes.  And all of it out of fear of adding too much trivia to the
postings.  Turns out the trivia's begun to take over, and the real juicy
bits are happening in secret.

    So here and now, I'm coming out of the closet!





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #284 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Human modelling...
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 14:46:58 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

>
>
>
>
> HI THERE !!!
>
> I'll try to make it as short as possible.
>
> I just want to ask two little quetions :
>
>     - What is the best way to create human figures ?
>           I have tried the Forms Editor but I am not satisfied
>       because the figure doesn't look realistic and I have
>       tried creating a sphere, than destroying one half
>       and modeling it with the Magnetism options but
>       sometimes it works prett well and some others it's CHAOS.
>       Any advice would be helpfull.


    Honesty, the best editor for this is the forms editor. I've
created many a convincing human with it. The important thing to
remember is you have to break the human into parts. For instance,
don't just create a leg. Create a calf, a knee, and a thigh.
    Obviously, you only have to make one half of the human. In the
case of the leg, group all objects to an axis, copy the grouping, and
scale it a -1 value on the appropriate axis.
    My first attempt involved using basic forms in the forms
editor. I'd use just the basic cross-sections. It looked good, but not
good enough. The result was more of a robotic figure. During my second
attempt I edited the individual cross-sections. This allowed me to
really model the underlying muscle structure. The results were quite
surprisingly good. The editing of individual cross-sections is
crucial for realism.
    For further muscle tweaking I use the detail editor and
magnetism. The most difficult part about creating a fully articulate
human figure is determining where the joints go. Getting several parts
to work (rather fit) seamlessly together is the tough part.
    The only problem I'm having now is with the head. Modelling a
head is difficult to say the least. I'd actually prefer not to, and
just rely on a digitized data set. Anybody have any sources for human
heads?
    Maybe sometime I'll upload an image with one of my figures to
Aminet...


                        J.----->

 E-Mail: [e-mail]






IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #285 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 20:18:34 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] wrote :

>     - What is the best way to create human figures ?
>           I have tried the Forms Editor but I am not satisfied
>       because the figure doesn't look realistic and I have
>       tried creating a sphere, than destroying one half
>       and modeling it with the Magnetism options but
>       sometimes it works prett well and some others it's CHAOS.
>       Any advice would be helpfull.

One quite useful technique that I have used for creating life objects is
to use the Forms editor combined with a Genlock. I start by framegrabbing
three views (front,top and side) of an object with a video camera. These
are stored as IFF pictures eg 16 colour monochrome hires images. An
elderly A500 is then used to display the pictures. I then genlock my 2000
to the 500 and fire up Imagine. What you then see is the IFF picture with
Imagine superimposed on top. Oversimplifying, what you then do is add a Forms
object and drag the points around to outline the IFF projection. Change view
and drag again, et voila!

If anyone is really interested I could try to come up with a better
explanation/tutorial somehow.

This method works best for solids, so to model a human it could be used
to model the legs,torso,arm,head etc which would then have to be joined.
I am at present in the process of using this method to create a dinosaur
object based on a JP toy.


Andrew


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #286 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Human modelling...
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 15:38:02 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  2:46 PM 3/24/94 -0500, Jeffrey Goldman wrote:

>        Honesty, the best editor for this is the forms editor.

Have you seen FreeForm3D?  It's a spline-based editor that saves Imagine
format parts.  The sample pics show some wonderful bodies.

>        The only problem I'm having now is with the head. Modelling a
>head is difficult to say the least. I'd actually prefer not to, and
>just rely on a digitized data set. Anybody have any sources for human
>heads?

I've got a rather nice one that I downloaded from boing, I believe.
If you don't find one there, I'll be sure to have it with me tomorrow
and I can send it to you.  Let me know.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #287 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Bouble light Renderings
Date: 24 Mar 94 22:11:16 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)

 [ 24 Mar 94 ] [ Lesk -> me ]

 L> Soren Wind put the basis of this buble out here on the IML and this is
 L> how I used them (Thanks Soren).

Your welcome, but it brings me to the next question, normal a soap
buble is light sensitive, but this one isn't precisely, does anyone
have an idea about how to make a bouble like this, so that the
colorfadings in the bouble change, dependnig on where the lightsources
are ?

and a little subquestion, how do i change the priority of Imagine from
ie. my shell/cli window ?

        SObren Wind - IZI/ImPACT       __     _____        _______
 /\\   GFX / 3D Design / Raytrace    (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / /\\
 \\/ Fidonet Scala  2:230/418.30     /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \\/
     Fidonet ATeam  2:230/714.17    /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\
      Amiganet : 39:141/104.30         /     \      |__\_____\
     Internet : [e-mail]     /_______\
   A2K/030/882/9MB/345MB/33MHz+SVGA
 <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= So GooD, So Far, So WHAT ? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->

... It's not lost, I'm just unsure of it's position


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #288 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Cycle Probs
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 18:53:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (David Wyand)

Greets Paul!

>Dave
>
>I have not used the cycle editor so it may have its advantages but have
>you thought of using states (V2.9) rather than the cycles ?

Not knowing which Dave you're refering to, I'll take it upon myself to
respond :)

States are terrific!  They let you change brush maps, and make morphing
a whole lot easier.  The only problem in v2.9 is that there is no way to
preview your states like there is in the cycle editor.  Let's say you
make a walking man.  You can't tell how well you're man walks with
states without going into the Stage and doin' a wireframe.  Within the
Cycle Editor, you can see your changes and stuff at any time.  I suppose
its only a couple of steps, but I'm used to it from v2.0.

If there was some way to preview your states in the Detail Editor, that
would be Great (Impule??)

                                        -Dave
                                         [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #289 ***************************************:-)

Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 14:06 HIV
From: [e-mail]

HELLO,


1)  First of all a small message for STANIS :

"    Merci STANIS, c' est supersympa de m' avoir repondu et
en plus c' est tres interressant.
    Merci pour ton numero de telephone aussi (j'te file pas
le mien : Yanapa)... Vous avez de la chance d' avoir un club 3D,
c' est cool.

            A plus sur la IML ou ailleurs!"






2)  I also want to thank you for your fast answers :) but I still
have few questions:

Glenn >        Buy the "Humanoid" package from Tim Wilson.  It is incredible.
Glenn > It has a Man, Strong Man, Woman, and Child.  It includes facial
Glenn > expressions for emotion and phonemes to create speech by morphing
Glenn > through the different expressions.  It is a must-have.

    I currently live in France and i never heard of this package,
could you please tell where I can find this package, it will be really
helpfull.




3)  Has anybody an answer about morphing textures on an object ???

4)  Now the bonus Question:
    Does anybody know how Imagine loads textures, I mean:
if I have a scene with 3 times the same texture, does Imagine load
them 3 times in memory or only once (This is important for me
because I'm on a project with lots of textures and I don't have
17895132513 Megs of memory)?
    What about pics (if I have the same brush on an object than my
global brush).




                    THANX ...
                            J-C.

                    [e-mail]




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #290 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Humanoid
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 16:12:35 GMT
From: "Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~" <[e-mail]>

[ description of Tim Wilson's "Humanoid" package deleted... ]

J-C> I currently live in France and i never heard of this package,
J-C> could you please tell where I can find this package, it will be
J-C> really helpfull.

    Yes, let me look it up...

Tim Wilson
1065 Mercury Way
Crestline, CA  92325
USA

[phone]

    Call Tim for pricing information.  He has versions for
Imagine, LightWave3D, and 3D Studio.  He is considering a port to
Envisage as well.

                            -- Glenn



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #291 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Changing Imagine's Task Priority
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:08:12 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>

>> and a little subquestion, how do i change the priority of Imagine from
>> ie. my shell/cli window ?

>Try ChangeTaskPri.  One argument is the task number you want to change,
>the other is the priority.  I don't remember the order.
>
>Alternately, you can use JM, which will let you have finer control over
>allocation to CPU bound processes.
>
>  - steve

  You can only use ChangeTaskPri to change the priority of a task
that was started from the shell.  If you start Imagine by clicking
on its icon then you have to get a PD utility to change the priority.

  I use 'TaskX' to change the priorities of tasks started from the
workbench.  It is a small and well written program.  I'm sure its
on AmiNet somewhere.

-Jeff Wahaus-



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #292 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bouble light Renderings
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:28:12 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)

At  6:28 AM 3/25/94 -0700, Steve Koren wrote:
>> and a little subquestion, how do i change the priority of Imagine from
>> ie. my shell/cli window ?
>
>Try ChangeTaskPri.  One argument is the task number you want to change,
>the other is the priority.  I don't remember the order.

This only works on tasks launched from the shell (visible with "status
full"), but it does work.

>Alternately, you can use JM, which will let you have finer control over
>allocation to CPU bound processes.

JM really let's you tweak CPU usage like nothing else I've seen, but I
always wondered if it was affecting my system's stability.  Do you have
any problems with it?  It has been a while since I used it.  BTW, you can
also use Tapriska or ARTM (or any of several other utilities) to change
the task's priority after you've started it.  I happen to really like the
latest version of ARTM.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy (speaking only for me)              [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.             Bellevue, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #293 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bouble light Renderings
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 09:39:37 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

> [ 24 Mar 94 ] [ Lesk -> me ]
>
> L> Soren Wind put the basis of this buble out here on the IML and this is
> L> how I used them (Thanks Soren).
>
>Your welcome, but it brings me to the next question, normal a soap
>buble is light sensitive, but this one isn't precisely,

If you are asking about how I did my bubble as it is, I would be more than
happy to send you the project just as it is set up. You have been a great
service to the IML with all the atts. etc. you have given us beginners and
I would take pride in the opritunity to return the favor.

>does anyone have an idea about how to make a bouble like this, so that the
>colorfadings in the bouble change, dependnig on where the lightsources
>are ?

If you get an answer to this I would really like to know. I know you can
morph the atts. & textures but I am not aware of any way to hook the
lightsource to that morphing. I believe something of that nature would
require a much more physics based program than imagine. for instance I read
about real3d the information said you could throw a bunch of snow in the
air put in a fan and watch the the snow blow all around. I think that is
the kind of interaction required for what you want, but unless I am REALLY
suprised by 3.0 I think you will have to manually figure out where your
atts and textures are moving.

>
>and a little subquestion, how do i change the priority of Imagine from
>ie. my shell/cli window ?

changetaskpri is in the manual and if I remember correctly highlighting
your Icon and then selecting information will allow changes to the icon
itself.
be careful it is better to set other things down rather than the one you
want up. Higher priorities can and will take over disk response times as
well as the graphics cards, I/O cards, chipsets etc. and make your entire
goal exactly the oppisite of what you expect. The best thing I would advise
is to look up the cpu command, setting burst cache etc. really do more for
speed increases than changing priority.

                                                Render Ho!
                                                   Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #294 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Associations
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 09:18:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy White <[e-mail]>

What exactally does the associate bar in the action editor do???? I have
tried to use it with no luck.


Also, I have created several objects in the forms editor (same number of
points and all) and would like them to be various states.  Is it possible
to load them as states in an object???

Thanx in advance.




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #295 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 24 Bit cards
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail]

Hello All,

In using Imagine on my Home machine (40Mhz a2000). And not haveing the
nice toaster to use as a frame buffer like work... I've been looking into
a 24bit card to inhance the system. Both for creation and veiwing.  What
are the opinions on the "best" 24 bit card for use in an A2000 (ie. Zorro
III is not a big issue) mostly I am looking for somthing that will run
imagine on a higher rez screen. and be a stable WB immulation.  However I
think that the card that is the most popular will also see the most
support from 3party software, very important! They all seem to be about
$500 street price here.  Does anyone use a card with Imagine here?

TIA

--
-== When Dreams Become Reality ==- Illumine & Illuminati  [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #296 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: DPS PAR DR-3150 THE PAL ONE IS HERE !!!!
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 23:35:57 MET
From: [e-mail] (Erwin Zwart)

> but someone asked me about the DPS PAR DR-3150 PAL-Version of the
>famous DPS Personal Animation Recorder and I lost his mail-address.
Well, I'm not that person, but nevertheless am I very interested in all
the info I can get. I'm going to look at it in Amsterdam with the Dutch
importer Tuesday, they showed one at the Cebitt last week in the C= booth
(I wasn't there btw)
I do have a compilation of IML and c/s/a/graphics talk from May1993 until
now from NTSC users (hi Mark :) , with a few gaps because of account change.

> I now have the info where to get it,  so I the one is still interested
> please mail me again so we have not to waste bandwidth again.
Waste it (if it is not too long ofcourse) or else send it to me private
please. I'm doing a 3200 frames animation for the Dutch ministry of Trans-
port, Public Works and Water Management as a test of using computer animation
instead of very large maquettes (scale models) with tiny video cameras's.
It's a drive over a fly-over through a large traffic junction near Rotterdam.
Now I have to bring over the frames to a friend with a Sony Laserdisk Video
Recorder for single framing, I would love to render directly to the DPS PAR.
Now if Lightwave provided a PAL aspectratio/image-sizes I would be more
happy...I would get the dongle too :-), a NTSC Toaster would be worth it
here in Europe with a PAL Lightwave.
Now happily Imagining (3.0 two weeks to go ? heh heh),

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Erwin Zwart    [e-mail]    Faculty of Aerospace Engineering |
| phone: [phone] (or 140034)        Delft University of Technology   |
| fax  : [phone]                    The Netherlands                  |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #297 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Converters
Date:     Sat, 26 Mar 1994 00:41:02 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

Does anyone have a list of object conversion programs and the formats
that they handle(PD & Commercial prgs)?

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #298 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3d Studio
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 17:08:35 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)

  Hi, does anyone know of a mailing list or ftp site for 3d Studio
Stuff?



--
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Greg Pringle             |                                              |
| [e-mail] |          "Better dead than smeg"             |
| [e-mail] |                                              |
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #299 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Particle anim uploaded to Aminet gfx/anim
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 07:07:33 CST
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>

Greetings!

cometj1.lha is a 300 frame HAM quarterscreen anim of a Bubbly Blob drifting
past emitting a long stream of, erm, bubbly blobs?  The camera moves through
the tail slowly.  Some sort of ringed gas giant in the background.

The nicest thing about this anim, IMHO, is the way the emitted particles all
move differently.  By combining States with Particles you can create much
less regular/symmetrical effects.

It's 1.6MB big (although the Aminet Uploads broadcast said it was 2.5MB?!?)

Unoriginal thought processes creditted to: the Imagine 2.9 release notes,
DS9, and the texture notes re: Saturn (nice one Scott!)

I'm thinking of puting up cometj2.lha - the next version with multicolored
spinning tetrahedrons, 600 frames, an even sweeter camera path/track - plus
the project file (works with both Amiga and PC versions).

Please send any comments or questions to the Imagine Mailing List.  Members
of the underground IML network may contact me directly ;-)

Enjoy,
Jay

---
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #300 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: FOG & the blues (fwd)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 00:33:01 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

Thanks for the info Jason, and I'm also forwarding this to the IML as I
think that it will benefit others.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 12:02:51 -0500
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FOG & the blues

Fog isn't too bad once you get the hang of it.  There are a couple problems
to be aware of though.  Overlapping fogs will cancel each other out wherever
they overlap.  Fog objects should be closed objects.  If you have a tube be
sure to close the ends up.  And when you scale your object up or down you
should be aware that the fog length will not scale with your object, I found
this very annoying.

Imagine that you have a 100x100x100 cube and you make it a fog object.  What
does the fog length mean?  If you make your fog length 50 units and then
move a non-fog object into the fog, once it goes beyond 50 units you won't
be able to see it anymore.  50 units is the point at which an object inside
a fog will be totally obscured by that fog.  If you shorten the length to
say 25 then the fog will become more dense.  Making the length larger creates
a less dense fog.  If the length is greater than 100 then you will be able to
see objects on the other side of the cube.

Using global fog in stage/action is similar but it is applied everywhere, like
an infinite plane.  You can however control the heights(Z) where the fog
begins & ends.  So if you wanted fog in a grave yard you could tell it to
start at the ground level and end as high as you want, depending upon what
your are looking for in your scene.  The fog length works the same as with
objects.  If it is set to 100 units then any object in your scene that is
beyond 100 units will be hidden in the fog.  For a very subtle fog I sometimes
set my length to 2048 or greater, this is very thin.

There is another annoying feature of fogs.  It looks great when used for
making atmosphere on a planet but it will illuminate the entire planet, no
matter where the light source is placed.  So you can't get a dark side if you
have the fog around the entire planet.  You can get around this by using a
half sphere fog for the atmosphere and aligning it to your lightsource.

If you have any more ?s about fog let me know.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #301 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: DPS PAR DR-3150 THE PAL ONE IS HERE !!!!
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 00:55:25 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Fri, 25 Mar 1994, Hannes Heckner wrote:

> Sorry to waste the bandwidth,
>
> but someone asked me about the DPS PAR DR-3150 PAL-Version of the
> famous DPS Personal Animation Recorder and I lost his mail-address.
>
> I now have the info where to get it,  so I the one is still interested
> please mail me again so we have not to waste bandwidth again.

Actually Hannes, there are a few of us PAL users on the IML so I guess a
number of us would be interested! :-)
Is it finally shipping ? Has anyone you know got it yet ?

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #302 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Human modelling...
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 00:48:56 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Thu, 24 Mar 1994, Jeffrey Goldman wrote:
>     My first attempt involved using basic forms in the forms
> editor. I'd use just the basic cross-sections. It looked good, but not
> good enough. The result was more of a robotic figure. During my second
> attempt I edited the individual cross-sections. This allowed me to
> really model the underlying muscle structure. The results were quite
> surprisingly good. The editing of individual cross-sections is
> crucial for realism.
>     For further muscle tweaking I use the detail editor and
> magnetism. The most difficult part about creating a fully articulate
> human figure is determining where the joints go. Getting several parts
> to work (rather fit) seamlessly together is the tough part.
>     The only problem I'm having now is with the head. Modelling a
> head is difficult to say the least. I'd actually prefer not to, and
> just rely on a digitized data set. Anybody have any sources for human
> heads?
>     Maybe sometime I'll upload an image with one of my figures to
> Aminet...
>

I hope that you do! :-) BTW, if you want a head object, there is Mark
Thompson's head (Hi Mark!) object floating around the net. Try
wuarchive.wustl.edu - pub/systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine

Nik.
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #303 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Particle anim uploaded to Aminet gfx/anim
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 01:02:06 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Sat, 26 Mar 1994, Jason Jack wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> cometj1.lha is a 300 frame HAM quarterscreen anim of a Bubbly Blob drifting
> past emitting a long stream of, erm, bubbly blobs?  The camera moves through
> the tail slowly.  Some sort of ringed gas giant in the background.
>
> The nicest thing about this anim, IMHO, is the way the emitted particles all
> move differently.  By combining States with Particles you can create much
> less regular/symmetrical effects.
>

I was just wondering if you could post a little tutorial on how you did
it (although this may be already included in the archive - I have yet to
download it).
Your idea of uploading the project sounds good too though! :-)

Regards,

Nik.
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #304 ***************************************:-)

Subject: objects
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 19:25:00 +0000
From: [e-mail] (Paul Rance)

Hi,

Does anyone have or know any sites where I can get a space shuttle object and a
Vulcan Bomber object.

Thanks in advance

Paul Rance



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #305 ***************************************:-)

Subject: DCTV and Flicker-Fixers
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 13:37:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Christopher Ivan Morris <[e-mail]>

Hi everyone,

    Here's yet another question about that low cost boon to Amiga
animators, DCTV.  I have an accelerated A500 with DCTV.  Sick of viewing
the world in 640 X 200, I'm thinking of getting something like Flicker Free
Video 2.  Anyone know of any compatability problems between DCTV and
flicker-fixers?  I also once read a blurb that DCTV doesn't pass through
some of the higher frequency AGA modes correctly.  This would seem to
relate directly to the flicker-fixer question.  Any comments out there?


Many thanks,
Chris


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #306 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: DCTV and Flicker-Fixers
Date:     Sat, 26 Mar 1994 16:58:07 -0800
From: "Steve \"Vis\" Lopez" <[e-mail]>

I use the Commodore Flicker fixer a2323 (I think that's the number...)
and it works fine with my system.  I have a Goldstar SVGA monitor for the
flickerfixed display and use a 1084s to do all the composite type stuff.
(output from DCTV, and my G-lock genlock.)  The only problems I've had
were the genlock won't work with DCTV without the genlock adapter (100
more bucks) and for some strange reason, my DCTV quit two days ago.
Sigh, something else to figure out I guess...

Hope this helps!

   _____ __                    ____       __
  / ___// /____ _   _____     / __ \     / /   ____  ____  ___  ____
  \__ \/ __/ _ \ | / / _ \   / /_/ /    / /   / __ \/ __ \/ _ \/_  /
 ___/ / /_/  __/ |/ /  __/  / __  /    / /___/ /_/ / /_/ /  __/ / /_
/____/\__/\___/|___/\___/  /_/ /_(_)  /_____/\____/ .___/\___/ /___/
                                                 /_/
                                                     | ///          ///
                                                     | \ //        /  /
      ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]   |  \ ////   _/  /
     ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle   |   \_  ////    /
 \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production   |     \___/    /
  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV  |     /         \_
                        : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr    |    /,)-_(  \_   \
   "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k    |    (/   \\ / \\\\
                                                     |          //
                                                     |         ((`



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #307 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Visible Lightbeams
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 00:48:32 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Tony Jones)

Posted for Frank Aalbers:

In a message of 15 Mar 94 Christopher Stewart wrote to :

 CS>  * Subj : Re: Visible Lightbeams
 CS>  * To   : , [e-mail]
 CS>  * From : Christopher Stewart, [e-mail]
 CS>  * Area : MAIL_DIR



 >> Posted for Frank Aalbers:

 CS> be make out of cones and mapped. Use a transparency map to make the cone
 CS> transparent towards the end

That I already did , but the edges of my lightbeam are to scharp .

 CS> and a fractal brush to give the swirling
 CS> effect. You might want to use Essence's fractals for that as they
 CS> contain a time parameter.

Wow ! Youre right , why didn't I think about it ... Thanx ! I'll work on it
right away . ;-)

 CS> I'm making a eel being chased by a diver right
 CS> now and will send you the results (or post them) of my efforts.

Well , at the moment I'm making a SeaQuest scene for a competition of a German
televisionstation RTL+ . They just started to send the series and started a
competition together with Commodore Germany for low end users like AMIGA, PC
and MAC .

 CS> Imagine DOES need better lighting though. Glow behind etc.... Let's hope
 CS> it's in 3.0

We all hope ... but for when ...

 CS> ps. You might want to subscribe to the Lightwave list, even if you
 CS> don't own the software. Lot's of good advice that can be applied to
 CS> Imagine.

Hmm ... my messages are posted in IML trough the FIDO IMAGINE area by Tony
Jones. I'm not really on usenet .

Thanx for your help .

Greetings from Belgium , Frank Aalbers .




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #308 ***************************************:-)

Subject:       Re: Associations
Date:          Sun, 27 Mar 1994 17:06:39 GMT +1200
From: [e-mail]

> What exactally does the associate bar in the action editor do???? I have
> tried to use it with no luck.

The behavour of one object associated to another object is much the same as
having grouped objects. ie. If the parent object is moved or rotated the
child objects remain in formation with the parent ( gets moved also ).

The advantage of association is each object has its own set of timelines so
may be ungrouped/unassociated at any time over the animation, and may do its
own thing.

To use:

1. Add in your parent object.
2. Add in your child objects.
3. Add an association timeline to each of the child objects and type in the
   name of the parent object when prompted.
4. Now give the parent object some movement/rotation and you'll find the
   children follow !

works a treat...
Cheers
Paul.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #309 ***************************************:-)

Subject: disp180a.zip - handles Imagine PC pictures/anims
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 19:01:04 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)

  Hi, if you work with animations on the PC, then you probably want
to check out this program (although it seems to have trouble with
some 24 bit modes on my VLB speedstar pro).


<from comp.archives.msdos.announce>

-----

I have uploaded to the SimTel Software Repository (available by anonymous
ftp from the primary mirror site OAK.Oakland.Edu and its mirrors):

pub/msdos/graphics/
disp180a.zip    Display/Convert images/movies w/many formats

This program can let you READ, WRITE and DISPLAY images/movies with
different formats.  It also let you do some special effects (rotation,
dithering ...) on image.

Features:
    Include simple file management system.
    Support slide show.
    Support batch conversion.
    There is NO LIMIT on image size.
    This program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.
    Support movie files(DL,FLI/FLC,RAW,MPEG,AVI,GL).
    Support mouse.
    Support contact sheet making.
    Support image preview.

Hardware Requirement:
  PC 386 or better. MSDOS 3.3 or higher.
  Hard disk for swapping(virtual memory).

  The following description is borrowed from DJGPP.

  Supported Wares:

  * Up to 128M of extended memory (expanded under VCPI)
  * Up to 128M of disk space used for swapping
  * SuperVGA 256-color mode up to 1024x768
  * 80387
  * XMS & VDISK memory allocation strategies
  * VCPI programs, such as QEMM, DESQview, and 386MAX
  * Microsoft Windows, OS/2.

  Features: 80387 emulator, 32-bit unix-ish environment, flat memory
  model, SVGA graphics.

Support Formats:

  Read: GIF(.gif), Japan MAG(.mag), Japan PIC(.jpc), Sun Raster(.ras),
        Jpeg(.jpg), XBM(.xbm), Utah RLE(.rle), PBM(.pbm), PGM(.pgm),
        PPM(.ppm), PM(.pm), PCX(.pcx), Japan MKI(.mki), Tiff(.tif),
        Targa(.tga), XPM(.xpm), Mac Paint(.mac), GEM/IMG(.img),
        IFF/ILBM(.lbm), Window BMP(.bmp), QRT ray tracing(.qrt),
        Mac PICT(.pct), VIS(.vis), PDS(.pds), VIKING(.vik), VICAR(.vic),
        FITS(.fit), Usenix FACE(.fac), IRIS(.sgi), YUV(.yuv), RAW RGB(.rgb),
        Pictor/PCPAINT(.pic .clp), RAW GREY(.gry).

        DL(.dl), FLI(.fli), FLC(.flc), RAW(.raw, produced by DMPEG),
        MPEG(.mpg), AVI(.avi), GL(.gl).

        the extensions in () are standard extensions.

  Write: GIF, Sun Raster, Jpeg, XBM, PBM, PGM, PPM, PM, Tiff, Targa,
         XPM, Mac Paint, Ascii, Laser Jet, IFF/ILBM, Window BMP,
         Mac PICT, VIS, FITS, FACE, PCX, GEM/IMG, IRIS, YUV, RAW RGB,
         Postscript, RAW GREY.

  Preview: GIF, Jpeg, PBM, PGM, PPM, PCX, Targa, Windows BMP.

  All Read/Write support full color(8 bits), grey scale, b/w dither,
      and 24 bits image, if allowed for that format.

Many changes since version 1.60.

disp180a.zip has replaced disp160.zip.

Uploaded by the author.

Final:

If you have any PROBLEM, SUGGESTION, COMMENT about this program, please
send to [e-mail] (140.113.11.13).  I need your
suggestion to improve this program.  (There is NO anonymous ftp on this
site)

Jih-Shin Ho
[e-mail]

End of forwarded message.

--
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Greg Pringle             |                                              |
| [e-mail] |          "Better dead than smeg"             |
| [e-mail] |                                              |
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #310 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3ds to imagine
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 10:36:25 EST
From: [e-mail]

Does anyone know of a utility to convert 3d Studio mesh files to a format
that imagine can read.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #311 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3ds to imagine
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 09:12:22 -0800
From: Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>

InterChange Plus can do that, plus a bunch more. It is available from
Syndesis and your local dealer. You can contact John Foust here on the
Inet too [e-mail].

Tim [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #312 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: objects
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 07:57:33 +0100 (MET DST)
From: gp178 <[e-mail]>

>
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have or know any sites where I can get a space shuttle object and
a
> Vulcan Bomber object.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Paul Rance
>
>

Try on ftp avalon.chinalake.navy.mil, you'll probably find what you want...

    Stanis
    [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #313 ***************************************:-)

Subject: WANTED: USGS Moon data
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 07:14:28 EST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Marino)

Hello Imagineers!

I'm trying to find actual USGS lunar data for an anim I'm working on.
Does anyone know if such data exists?

Any help would be appreciated.

Your friendly NYC Imagineer,
Paul Marino.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #314 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Loading a .dxf?
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 19:22:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Fraser Goodmurphy)

I've got a simple logo in CorelDraw 3.0 that I tried to load into
Imagine as a .dxf.  I only got an axis when I loaded it from the object
menu in the detail editor.  Have I missed something?

Regards,
Fraser

---
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
---
þ CmpQwk #UNREGþ UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #315 ***************************************:-)

Subject: 3.0 release date
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 14:57:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>

Hi everyone. I just called Impulse, and they told me that the release of
Imagine 3.0 will be around the first of April. They said that the PC version
will probably be released first, only because it's been a little more tested
than the Amiga version. The Amiga version should be a day or two behind the
PC version.

3.0 Amiga will list for $699, and Impulse recommended a MINIMUM of 4 megs of
memory, with more strongly recommended. Naturally, an accelerator is advisable.

I'm pretty excited about the release of 3.0, and feel like they're telling an
honest date... I'm expecting to see my copy of 3.0 before tax time...

YEAH!

-andrew vogel



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #316 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Mac 3D software
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 16:48:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  Hi, Carmen, all...
    Know this was an OLD, OLD post, but I just got around to uncompressing
    the mail bundle so thoughtfully compresed on my account by my
    SysAdmins. (lazy, lazy me, yes)
    Anyway, I read your response to STRATA's StudioPro  and couldn't
    help but add something positive:
       I've been using imagine since Turbo Silver days and got hooked on
       Caligari not too long ago.  Since january, I have been learning
       Strata at work and using it for videographics.  The motion and
       modellers have the limits you decribed but I found the interface to
       be pretty comforting once immersed in it

   I'd also like to hear from anyone who's used STRATA or is currently
   using it.
   wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #317 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Slow Amiga+Imagine Rendering Speed
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 13:50:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>

On Sat, 19 Mar 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> Recently there has been some talk on the IML about how to
> tweak the Amiga's Workbench to scrape a little more render
> speed out of Imagine.  I thought I'd try a few of these
> suggestions out.  So I set up a simple scene which I used as

Stuff deleted

>
> Ok, now on to the results.
>
> Configuration (difference from standard)    | Time to Render
> --------------------------------------------|--------------
> Standard                                    |   6:56 (avg)

More Stuff Deleted

> Path For Stills = RAM:                      |   6:25
>   - Subprojects, Modify requester           |
>
>
> Conclusions?  Well, the only difference I can see results
> from writing the output file to RAM: instead of to the hard
> drive.  Makes sense.  However, I'm not too excited about

More Stuff Deleted

I have a program that I wrote for monitoring ram:.  It moves and LHA's
the pictures gennerated, onto Harddisk.  This has been used primarly as
an inhouse custom program.  If there is adaquate responce for the release
of my program to Shareware, I may put onto the Aminet.

By rendering to ram:, a recient 2500 frame animation I did, saved nearly ONE
DAY in render times!  And the LHA saved aprx. 35%, a savings of almost
400 megs!

I'd like to hear your opinion of a modest $10 shareware fee.  How many of
you would like to have this utility?  For a complete list of features,
please write.


   r--\            _____   **********************************************
   |  |     ___----     \  *  Ray Collett  ---  [e-mail]  *
   |   \__--             | **********************************************
   |   *                 | *Partner  - PSI Animations - (1-503)-624-8185*
   /           //       /  *17924 SW Pilkington Rd  Lake Oswego OR 97035*
  |           //        \  *Professional 3D Titling & Animations AB roll*
  |       \\ //          | *Video Editing - frame grabbing - Rotoscoping*
  /        \X/           | **********************************************
 |                       | *      Rendering my life away....   :^)      *
  \______________________| **********************************************








IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #318 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0 release date
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 16:29:18 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|3.0 Amiga will list for $699, and Impulse recommended a MINIMUM of 4 megs of
|memory, with more strongly recommended. Naturally, an accelerator is advisable.


    well that's nice... seeing how 4 MEg is all mine will hold.
    2500/30.

    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #319 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Loading a .dxf?
Date: 28 Mar 94 02:59:00 -0800
From: [e-mail]

>I've got a simple logo in CorelDraw 3.0 that I tried to load into
>Imagine as a .dxf.  I only got an axis when I loaded it from the object
>menu in the detail editor.  Have I missed something?
>
>Regards,
>Fraser
>
>---
>[e-mail]
>[e-mail]
>---
> CmpQwk #UNREG UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

     In my experience with 2.9, DXF import only works with autocad 3DFACE
     objects.  2d line drawings do not transfer.  I don't know if this will
     be fixed in 3.0, but you could try one of the other 3rd party
     conversion utilities.  There is one public domain program but it is
     limited.  The others are commercial.  Unfortunately, I do not have the
     program names here at work.

     Ed


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #320 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Apex new application FORGE
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 10:58:25 EST
From: [e-mail] (Robin Luiten)

I have a friend who has tried to fax Apex to order forge
last week. He has not yet had a response. On past occasions
when he has faxed Apex the response has been almost immediate.

We were wondering if there fax number has changed ?
If anyone has their current fax number I'd appreciate if you
could let me know what it is.

Thanks...
Robin



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #321 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Imagine's author left ?
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:04:26 -0600
From: "Robin Chytil" <[e-mail]>

Hi !

I don't want to be pessimistic (even if verion 3.0 is coming out soon), but a
friend of mine asked me if I heard that Imagine's author has left Impulse, and
that's why it took so much time for the others to finish the work.
As I haven't heard of such a fact here, I just ask.
Is it a wrong rumor ?
Anybody ?

Robin

--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]





IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #322 ***************************************:-)

Subject: More 3.0 info
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 08:16:46 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]

I received a nice note from Mike H. at Impulse giving some more details about
the release of 3.0.

He told me that the manual is going to the printer today (Tues March 29), and
that the printer will have it for 4 or 5 days. Then Impulse has a few days to
get it into a shippable package, and send em out as fast as they can get them
to the post office.

Mike also confirmed the list as being $695, but if someone owns another 3D
package (but not Imagine), he suggested that they contact Impulse for a
competitive upgrade.

I appreciate Mike taking the time to fill me in on what's happening with
Imagine, and am really excited about the timeline... Now as long as the printer
doesn't screw up or burn down or anything, we should be seeing 3.0 within
2 weeks, I'd guess! Then, to quote Mike, "the hard work begins", as we all
try to function with little sleep while we spend TONS of time with the new
version!

Thanks again for the info, Mike.

-andrew vogel
-BowTie Productions



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #323 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Path frame advance
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 20:55:44
From: "Richard Willkomm" <[e-mail]>

Hello fellow rayers.

Is there anyway in which I can make an object appear on a path not at
the beginning. For example; I have two airplanes in persuit but the
first plane is ahead on the path in relation to the second.
At this time I just use two paths which are alomst the same. The
second path is a bit shifted to place the second plane behind the
first.
Sine I'm making a big anim (2500 frames) with a lot of dogfighting at
the end I came across this problem. If Imagine 2.0 doesn't have any
function to do this perhaps it's a great new item for 3.0.

Greetings

**********************************************************************
*                    | Richard Willkomm  ----- The Ray Freak-----    *
*                    |                                            -- *
*  ########  ####    | A500/GVP-HD+/030-33/882-50/9Mb/213MB      --  *
*      #   # #       | Gfx Co-Sysop The Hell BBS The Hague Holland   *
*      # ##  ###     | [phone]                          --    *
*      #  #  #       | e-mail : [e-mail]  --   --     *
*      #   # #       | NLA_net: 14:101/103.2              -- --      *
*                    | AMY_net: 39:153/108.2               ---       *
*                    |                                               *
**********************************************************************



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #324 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0 release date
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 14:24:43 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|Well, Dale, since you have an A2500/030, you *could* get an A2632 by DKB, and h
ave
| as much as 112MB extended cpu memory, plus the base 4MB autoconfig 32 bit RAM,

| and whatever 16 bit RAM (chip, additional 16 bit RAM, etc). Memory World, and
| DeVine both are advertising the DKB 2632 w/4MB RAM for $349!

    yeh,  I thought about that, but rather than sink a bunch of money
    into this system, I'd rather wait and get a 4000/40 later.  I am
    purchasing items that I can use on both my 2500, and will move to
    the 4000 when I eventually get it: BIG HD, PAR, maybe a sunrise
    board, Giga Mem, software, etc.  that way I still be productive
    and learn how to use all these tools before I upgrade.  Besides,
    the way things are changing, I expect better prices right around
    the corner for many of things I need.

    The $349 *would* buy me the potential for increasing my RAM, but it
    really doesn't get me anything immediately that I don't already
    have; ie. 4 meg.  Since I really want to upgrade to a 4000 (32 bit
    bus, AGA) anyway, it seems a waste to put a bunch of memory into
    this machine.

    Thanks for the feedback tho.

    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #325 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Path frame advance
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 16:59:45 EST
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)

>
>
> Hello fellow rayers.
>
> Is there anyway in which I can make an object appear on a path not at
> the beginning. For example; I have two airplanes in persuit but the
> first plane is ahead on the path in relation to the second.
> At this time I just use two paths which are alomst the same. The
> second path is a bit shifted to place the second plane behind the
> first.
> Sine I'm making a big anim (2500 frames) with a lot of dogfighting at
> the end I came across this problem. If Imagine 2.0 doesn't have any
> function to do this perhaps it's a great new item for 3.0.


    I'm a bit confused...

    If you want the second plane to lag behind the first at all
times (on the same path) then just start the position bar of the
second plane a few frames after you set the first plane's position
bar. Assign the position of both planes to the same path. Of course,
you have to extend your animation by the number of frames you put
between the two planes in order to have the second plane travel the
same path in the same number of frames as the first plane...

    OR

    You want an object to appear in the middle of a path. Just set
the object up as you would normally (object traversing entire path)
only leave out the actor info until the spot you want the object to
appear on the path. This may create a whole bunch of unneeded frames.
Just bypass them when rendering...

    OR

    I didn't understand and am sorry for wasting time...

    Hope something helped...

                            J.---->

E-Mail: [e-mail]


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #326 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0 release date
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:24:15 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 28 Mar 1994, Dale R Rogers wrote:

> |3.0 Amiga will list for $699, and Impulse recommended a MINIMUM of 4 megs of
> |memory, with more strongly recommended. Naturally, an accelerator is advisabl
e.
>
>     well that's nice... seeing how 4 MEg is all mine will hold.
>     2500/30.
>
>     Dale
>
If you have the 2630 you can get the DKB expansion board to it. I know
that it isn't cheap though, and it may be worth more getting something
like an 040 board (e.g. Fusion Forty or GVP one).

Nik.
[e-mail]



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #327 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: 3.0 release date
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:20:50 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 28 Mar 1994, Andrew P. Vogel wrote:

> Hi everyone. I just called Impulse, and they told me that the release of
> Imagine 3.0 will be around the first of April. They said that the PC version
> will probably be released first, only because it's been a little more tested
> than the Amiga version. The Amiga version should be a day or two behind the
> PC version.

Hmm, the 1st of April - April Fools' (sorry, couldn't help it! )
Also, the Easter holidays, so that gives them until a few days after
Easter to actually release it. If it is this close I'm happy to wait though!


>
> 3.0 Amiga will list for $699, and Impulse recommended a MINIMUM of 4 megs of
> memory, with more strongly recommended. Naturally, an accelerator is advisable
.
>
>
Ouch! Time to get that 4M Simm! (10 M just isn't enough these days)

Nik.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #328 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Starfield Blues in Trace Mode
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 19:25:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>

  I have a friend who is working on a terrestrial  night time scene and
  wanted an animatable starry sky.  he assembled an arry of tetrahedrons a'
  la Worley's "Understanding..." and placed them in the 'sky'.  They fall
  well within the assigned WORLD SIZE and they are all set to be BRIGHT and
  non-phonged.  He's running with plenty of RAM and the stars aren't very
  numerous anyway.  The array renders bright and wonderful in the DETAIL
  editor, but when the scene is traced in the STAGE, many stars do not show
  at all, even in scanline renderings.
     We found the reflection had been slightly up, so reset it to zero in
     all guns.  Still no change.  High and low settings of hardness and
     shininess also had no visible effect.
  A question to the many technical-minded out there, of which my friend and
  I are not...  Is it possible for the renderer(at resolutions less than
  AMIGA LORES (<320) ) to actually 'MISS' stars as it sends out rays?  The
  stars are also all visible in the wireframe representation, but I don't
  know as that is really relevant.
    Of course, optional work-around suggestions would be welcome  as
    well.  A call to Mr. Halvorson led only
    to the suggestion to use the global stars.  But of course!... and we
    all know how well THOSE animate.  Yes....
    thanks,
    wes~



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #329 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Path frame advance
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:58:51 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>>
>>
>> Hello fellow rayers.
>>
>> Is there anyway in which I can make an object appear on a path not at
>> the beginning. For example; I have two airplanes in persuit but the
>> first plane is ahead on the path in relation to the second.
>> At this time I just use two paths which are alomst the same. The
>> second path is a bit shifted to place the second plane behind the
>> first.
>> Sine I'm making a big anim (2500 frames) with a lot of dogfighting at
>> the end I came across this problem. If Imagine 2.0 doesn't have any
>> function to do this perhaps it's a great new item for 3.0.

        I had this trouble in a scene I did using an x wing etc.
I found several ways to do this
1) try and move one path ahead of the other
2) use the associate bar in 2.9
3) edit your second path and select the first axis highlighting the area from
   the first to second axis then add another axis.
4) Move you axis out in front of your object that will put the two objects apart

   even on the same path.

the two I like the best are the associate or adding the extra axis.
associate has some nice things but by adding the extra axis you get some
very nice wingtip tilting affects and the two objects are not in exact sync
( each one tilts in its own turns etc.).

   Good Luck

                                               Render Ho!
                                                  Lesk




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #330 ***************************************:-)

Subject: hello
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 23:11:03 -0500
From: Paul Wehner <[e-mail]>

Ok, thanks to all the smarty pants on the list who pointed out the correct
procedure to subscribe.
In light of C= USA's recent filing will Impulse continue amiga development
after 3.0 or just move it all into clones?


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #331 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Starfield Blues in Trace Mode
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:42:03 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

>
>   I have a friend who is working on a terrestrial  night time scene and
>   wanted an animatable starry sky.  he assembled an arry of tetrahedrons a'
[stuff gone]
>   A question to the many technical-minded out there, of which my friend and
>   I are not...  Is it possible for the renderer(at resolutions less than
>   AMIGA LORES (<320) ) to actually 'MISS' stars as it sends out rays?  The
>   stars are also all visible in the wireframe representation, but I don't
>   know as that is really relevant.

Sounds like thats probably it. Do some wink in and out of view?


Try making them a little bigger.  See if that helps.  Ofcourse, then it looks
like you have a night sky of huge stars and planets floating around.  Maybe
the composite solution(using ADPro, etc) would be better.

There was a long discussion of this way back when, and some good ideas
came out of it, but I don't think any perfect solution ever came up.  Let
us know if you get something.

ps For those of you who don't read net news(or other news), C= halted trading
on the NYSE on Monday.  This could be the end or just the beginning(hoping
someone with good marketing sense will take this opportunity to buy out C= ).
:(  Hmmm, how much are PCs going for these days? ;)

pps 3.0, any day now! (where have I heard that before;)

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #332 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: hello
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 12:04:15 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|Ok, thanks to all the smarty pants on the list who pointed out the correct
|procedure to subscribe.
|In light of C= USA's recent filing will Impulse continue amiga development
|after 3.0 or just move it all into clones?


     To what recent "filing" is Paul refering?

     Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #333 ***************************************:-)

Subject: C= USA gone!
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 14:08:15 -0500
From: Paul Wehner <[e-mail]>

I've just heard yesterday that Commadore USA has filed for bankruptcy
protection. My dealer, Expert Services, feels that this will impact
minimally on end-users as C= Canada will pick up the slack. At our
user group meeting last night a rumor was qouted that Dionne had intended
to roll up all these satellite operations anyway and have CBM be one massive
corporation based in the Bahamas.
As a side not Amiga Dos 3.1 looks to not be generally available in the near
future because of this(my thinking.) Expert Services is in negotiation to get
their hands on upgrade rom packages for Picasso II owners.
Anyways, I was just wondering if this is the excuse Impulse was waiting for to
drop Amiga development of the best program I own...


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #334 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Starfield Blues in Trace Mode
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 16:46:12 PST
From: [e-mail] (David Alan Steiger)

Hello,

>   [...] Is it possible for the renderer(at resolutions less than
>   AMIGA LORES (<320) ) to actually 'MISS' stars as it sends out rays?  The
>   stars are also all visible in the wireframe representation, but I don't
>   know as that is really relevant.

You could test and find out.  Try rendering a larger picture, say 640x400
(still lowres)  and see if the stars are different.

You could render all of your frames larger and then scale them down.  Art
Department supersamples larger->smaller pictures, so smaller stars will
show up dimmer rather than dissappear.

Granted you'll use a lot more space before the end result is completed.

Dave


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #335 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Bug in V2.9 States??
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 01:33:00 BST
From: [e-mail]

I don't remember if someone already posted this but what the heck is wrong
with "STATES" in V2.9??  I have a grouped object that I'm animating.  I
move/rotates some parts and save each movement in STATES-CREATE-GROUPED.
After I finish all the tween poisitions states I want, I save the object, go
into the Stage editor to test it out...and when I load it in Stage the
individual axises are at the correct positions but the objects have all
randomly moved off the axises in different directions!!!  What the hec is
happening here!?  I tried this several times (all the while when I CREATE
and then look back with SET TO in states, everything looks fine.  I save the
object, then reload it in stage (or even detail editor) and its all
corrupted.
 Anyone know what I'm doint wrong?  Is this a bug?

Thanks in advance for any help.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #336 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: Bouble light Renderings
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 17:02:15 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Lowell Lindenbach)

>and a little subquestion, how do i change the priority of Imagine from
>ie. my shell/cli window ?
>
>        SObren Wind - IZI/ImPACT       __     _____        _______

   First use STATUS to find the process # for Imagine, then use the
CHANGETASKPRI command.  The format is CHANGETASKPRI<priority>Process<Proc.#>
All tasks started from that process are also set to that priority.
   The shareware program AmigaRealTimeMonitor does a good job with this sort
of thing as well.

--
Lowell Lindenbach    [e-mail]
                     castrov.UUCP!ender!eridanus!lindenbach
                     Fido: Lowell Lindenbach 1:134/27


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #337 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Still looking for moon data
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 05:22:10 EST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Marino)

Hello Imagineers-

I'm still on the lookout for any USGS/DEM files of the moon.
I hope to eventually import this data into Imagine for a
small animation based on the Apollo missions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Your friendly NYC Imagineer,
Paul Marino([e-mail])


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #338 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Changing Imagine's Task
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 00:02:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)

JWCA>   You can only use ChangeTaskPri to change the priority of a task
JWCA> that was started from the shell.  If you start Imagine by clicking
JWCA> on its icon then you have to get a PD utility to change the priority.

JWCA>   I use 'TaskX' to change the priorities of tasks started from the
JWCA> workbench.  It is a small and well written program.  I'm sure its
JWCA> on AmiNet somewhere.

Under 2.04+, you can use "TOOLPRI=[priority]" to change the priority
of the task on bootup.  I use:
TOOLPRI=-1
for Imagine.  Makes things work much easier in the background.

* Q-Blue 1.0 *
... Overflow on null device; please empty the bit bucket.



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #339 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Re: C= woes
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 9:04:03 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|
|    I'm talking with an investments counselor this next week, I'll
|ask him about the advisability of picking up shares in a company that's
|filed for bankruptcy.  It seems to me a publicly owned comany could not
|possibly do any worse at promoting and maintaining the legitimacy of this
|amazing piece of hardware than Commodore has done.  We always bewail this
|fact at the local amiga user's group, at which I preside.  That is, that
|Amiga has always been a machine built by commodore but promoted and sold
|by its users.  Why not a machine built, promoted and sold by its users?

    I am not a gambler, but I have to admit that is was tempting to me
    as well.  But something seems very strange to me.  There are big
    network television types out there with millions of $$.  Why is it
    that Steve Speilburg, or NewTek, or many of the other third
    parties vendors haven't jumped in (or have they?).  It just seems
    strange.

    I talked to my local commodore dealer.  He has been on the phone
    with Commodore talking to people.  He said the everything is
    REALLY hush hush.  He said that even the people that are in a
    position to talk aren't talking.  Maybe it's a marketing scam.  New
    Amigas are due to come out soon.  Maybe some people are going to
    make A LOT of money.  Maybe Commodore is dead.  Hmmmmm.  I don't
    know.  But I certainly don't understand how a machine that is
    creating award winning presentations is now, all of sudden, dead.

    Dale



IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #340 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Still Looking for moon data
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 18:35:34 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)

>Lesk,
>   I am not sure what you mean by poor results and the results being the
>same.

Well it is hard to explain I guess... but all I get is a grid that one row
of points are lifted up all the rest of the grid is as it was. The points
do however raise at a random level. if I save it then use different source
image I get exactly the same single row and the same exact points raised
the same exact object as the other image....

> but The better (more resolution) the picture is, the better results you
>will get.  Also, it depends on how large of an object you want to deal with,
>the more faces the more detailed the object is.  If you are trying to use
>the image of somebody's face, you have to remember that the displacement is
>proportional from dark to light; the dark areas get displaced the least and
>the light areas get displaced the most.  It will not be a "perfect"
>extrusion of the image.  And extrusion is the wrong term to use.  Pixel3D
>will do extrusions but it doesn't do displacement mapping.

I would really like to understand this difference more clearly. Feel free
to expound on this or to referance material I might access (manuals library
etc.).
I am very intrigued by this.

>  I am getting the best results with overhead images of landscapes,
>primarily Mars and the moon.  I wonder if you are going into Edit Axis when
>you do the Applique command?

Been there! tried it!

>  You need to do this to control the "thickness"
>of the object.  Select Scale and choose scaling only in the Y-direction.
> Increase Y-scaling by some desired amount.
>  Also, the number of faces you have in your object is going to affect how
>good the results are.  If you are using a primitive plane, it is best to use
>the same relative units as the image, so if the image is a 640x480
>resolution, make the plane be 640x480 units, then use a fairly large number
>of subdivisions.  For this particular case, 64x48 sections results in a low
>quality landscape object.  I go ahead for something like 100x80 to get a
>medium quality landscape object.
>  If you are looking for the magical 2D image to 3D object convertor, this
>is not it.  This is a whole area in itself and there are a lot of people
>working on it.  There are a lot of people with the same idea you probably
>have: Why not get a 2D image of the Front, Top, and Right views of an object
>and then let the computer figure out all the in-betweens?  I saw an ad for a
>PC program that claims to take in a 2D image and figure out the missing 3D
>coordinate.  Don't know how well it works since I don't have the program.
> Sorry, no magic solution here.

Nah, I don't know what I really wanted or expected I just read what you
were up to and took a wild hack at it. What you have explained though about
faces and plane size may have much to do with it. Also I was using a
freeware converter I found some years ago to make grayscale and I am
thinking this may be the problem especially since all the results end up
exactly the same... I just ordered Imagef/x today for other reasons but I
hope it will produce gray scale images as well.

Your response is much appreciated Thank you.

                                               Render Ho!
                                                  Lesk


Oh! one last thing if you have vertex and hamlabplus a really wild thing to
do is change the mode to 1 or 2 planes then convert the image to iff then
use the convert iff command and be prepared for some wild effects it is
pretty trick and you get some very interesting tarrain.




IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #341 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Still Looking for moon data
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 20:34:51 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Cedric Georges Chang)

On Mar 31,  3:09pm, Stethem Ted              5721 wrote:
>   I have been working with the Applique function in V2.9 and it is really
> neat.  In fact, this is producing results that, for me, are better than
> using a DEM landscape.  Basically, find a good high resolution image of the
> area you are interested in, turn it into 8-bit grayscale, make a plane in
> Imagine V2.9 (best to use the same ratio as the image like 640x480 then have
> plenty of faces like 64 x48), apply the Applique Flat X - Flat Z using the
> grayscale map, increase the Y-scale by some desired amount (how "thick" you
> want the object to be), and let 'er go!  Now, you have a displacement object
> which matches that original image.  Take the original image and brushmap
> that onto the displacement object.  It looks really cool.  I am working on a
> flyover demo of this and plan to upload it to aminet in a few days.

How do you color your VistaPro or Applique mountains?  I have been getting
pretty good results with the linear texture (or LinearFract with Essence).
I set the base of the mountain to a dark green and use the texture to color the
top a light beige.  Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to set the
attribute settings to get realistic looking mountains?

Cedric

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cedric Chang                Mechanical Engineer               // Commodore
[e-mail]       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute      \X/  Amiga 3000
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IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #342 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RenderWare
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 16:40:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

  I know this is the Imagine Mailing List but this product deserves some
mention if you have any interest in 3D graphics and animation.  I posted an
article from Electronic Engineering Times a few weeks ago regarding the
development of a very fast C algorithm for 3D animation by Canon.  The
article said the algorithm was going to be incorporated in a new program
called RenderWare.
  Well, I just got the demo version of RenderWare for Windows and it is
unbelievable!  Can you say REAL-TIME animation, lighting change,
texture-mapping? The opening screen has a 3D logo of RENDERWARE spinning
space.  You can move your mouse onto this logo and stop its spin then turn
it all around.  There are three demos included; the Virtual Mall, Scientific
Visualization, and Texture mapping.  In the Virtual Mall, you can go into a
3D building, with brickwall texture on the walls and  marble texture on the
entryway columns, move around and view different objects with different
textures and click with the mouse to find the price.  In Scientific
Visualization, you can plot several 3D functions and apply different
textures to it like Mandelbrot, Wood, Marble, etc.  in REAL-TIME!  And the
object can be rotated, in REAL-TIME!  And you can change the source of the
lighting, in REAL-TIME!  With shading!  In Texture mapping, you have a
choice of several basic objects and several ANIMATED textures.  I applied
the Flame texture to a banana object and animated it.  The flame texture
starts animating immediately and then you can rotate the object in
REAL-TIME!  Real-time animated textures? Yes!
  This is all on a 486/33MHz.  I don't know how much this product is going
to cost but it is going to turn the 3D animation world upside down.  The
quality of the real-time render is as good as, if not better, than a
scanline render in Imagine.  Get a demo copy of this program and see if you
don't agree.


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #343 ***************************************:-)

Subject: RE: Still looking for moon data
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 15:09:00 PST
From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>

Paul,
   Don't know about USGS/DEM files for the moon but VistaPro sells a set for
Valles Marinaris on Mars.  It is a huge set, and uncompressed, in VistaPro
DEM format, it is about 6 or 7 megs.  Also, there is the VistaPro DEM for
Olympus Mons.
  I am also interested in USGS/DEM files for the moon.  VistaPro may even
offer them by now or provide information as to how to get them.  But you
never know with this stuff, from the source it can be super expensive and
usually is in 9-inch tape format.
  I have been working with the Applique function in V2.9 and it is really
neat.  In fact, this is producing results that, for me, are better than
using a DEM landscape.  Basically, find a good high resolution image of the
area you are interested in, turn it into 8-bit grayscale, make a plane in
Imagine V2.9 (best to use the same ratio as the image like 640x480 then have
plenty of faces like 64 x48), apply the Applique Flat X - Flat Z using the
grayscale map, increase the Y-scale by some desired amount (how "thick" you
want the object to be), and let 'er go!  Now, you have a displacement object
which matches that original image.  Take the original image and brushmap
that onto the displacement object.  It looks really cool.  I am working on a
flyover demo of this and plan to upload it to aminet in a few days.
   This is working so neat that I am looking for more high-resolution images
of the moon's surface (I have 2 really good images) but can't seem to find
the right overhead views on the net sites.  When I can get on, I am going to
have to check out the ones on the wuarchive under the multimedia/images/gif
section.  I have a real good .GIF of the full moon if you are interested. I
could uuencode it over to ya if ya wanted?  Also, got a couple of good full
face views of Mars from some Internet site.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: Still looking for moon data
Date: Thursday, March 31, 1994 5:22AM

Hello Imagineers-

I'm still on the lookout for any USGS/DEM files of the moon.
I hope to eventually import this data into Imagine for a
small animation based on the Apollo missions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Your friendly NYC Imagineer,
Paul Marino([e-mail])


IMAGINE ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #344 ***************************************:-)

Subject: Lens Flare in Imagine
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 23:04:28 EST
From: [e-mail]

  I ran across an article in the Feb 1994 issue of Amazing Amiga, for
creating a lens flare.
  I tried it out and it looks so-so.  You have to create an object, for the
flare, and it must be circular.
  If anyone has had better luck with it let me know.